Warning To Ford Dealers About " Chips/Hi Po Parts "
#47
#50
#51
#54
Originally posted by cyntaxx
Good thing I'm bone stock! I was thinking about a K&N panel filter today and almost went out and bought one but I'm glad I read this first! Guess I'll be sticking with my paper element filter...
Good thing I'm bone stock! I was thinking about a K&N panel filter today and almost went out and bought one but I'm glad I read this first! Guess I'll be sticking with my paper element filter...
Just save the sucker until you have to go in for a check up or what have you.
#55
$1billion in warranty claims in 02, since the previously mentioned
logic applies about the small ratio of SVT vehicles sold compared to "regular" vehicles, so logically it would seem that warranty claims would be a very small part of that $1 billion---even if SVT claims were 3-4 times the amount of regular vehicles? So obviously ford has quality problems accross the board! Too bad Ford/SVT can't take a page out of Toyota/TRD or Nissan/Nismo, Mercedes AMG! Buy/install performance parts at authorized dealer and vehicle standard/extended warranties intact Ford Racing parts don't have any warranty?What does this say ab out confidence Toyota, Nissan,etc have in their vehicles compared to Ford? JD Power comparisons? Hope Ford reads this!!!
#56
Originally posted by 95 Saleen S351
For all of you getting on Ford's Case about this, try going and sitting in a new BMW. Go for it...seriously. I was driving a brand new 7 series a couple weeks ago, and there is a little sticker on the windshield that is on all their vehicles that warns that your car's warranty could be voided if you use a cell phone in your car. Just simply using one could void it according to the warning. Also included were obvious performance enhancements which NO OEM obviously will cover, nor damage caused by those enhancements. Brake dust covers...and some other items were also mentioned in this list.
And this was a $85,000 automobile we are talking about here...telling you that you can't use your cell phone in it.
For all of you getting on Ford's Case about this, try going and sitting in a new BMW. Go for it...seriously. I was driving a brand new 7 series a couple weeks ago, and there is a little sticker on the windshield that is on all their vehicles that warns that your car's warranty could be voided if you use a cell phone in your car. Just simply using one could void it according to the warning. Also included were obvious performance enhancements which NO OEM obviously will cover, nor damage caused by those enhancements. Brake dust covers...and some other items were also mentioned in this list.
And this was a $85,000 automobile we are talking about here...telling you that you can't use your cell phone in it.
#57
Originally posted by 95 Saleen S351
...
And this was a $85,000 automobile we are talking about here...telling you that you can't use your cell phone in it.
...
And this was a $85,000 automobile we are talking about here...telling you that you can't use your cell phone in it.
rookie here... but how does a chip mess with emissions. everything still flows through the cats and muffler so it is quiet and emissions will pass. how does a chip effect that.
Maybe stock, but there is also wording in the warranty about "racing". Is test and tune considered "racing?
#58
This is something I posted in another thread, but it's something I think you should at least think about.
Sorry it's kind of long winded....
quote:
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Originally posted by SVT_KY
That huge "TUNED BY" sticker in the back window???
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No, it's a funny story though. Wish I could tell it.
The post above made it look like I was trying to tell you how to "cheat" Ford, and I'd never do that, I was just stating that most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference, and if it makes it back to the factory, all they check for are things that aren't affected by the parts changed. I can't say what the "official position" is, but if the valve body is properly assembled, it won't do anything that will cause a failure. Without getting into the technical stuff, it's a change in calibration, and it's done exactly the way Ford changes the calibration for different models, so it comes closer to Moss Magneson than most mods.
Most people here tend to see MM act as " I can do anything I want and they have to prove IT caused the problem" which I guess there may be a good legal argument for. It's certainly the position SEMA would have you believe.
After reading a lot about it, and talking about it with someone who is very familiar with how it actually works, I think that it's much closer to being "I can use Quaker State instead of of Motorcraft oil", a point I think is equally valid. The law is really more about using non OEM replacement parts, and all of these have some sort of standard that makes them more or less commodities, oil has SAE specs, body panels have a NHTSA number, etc... that more or less certifies them as being OEM equals, but a valid "legal" argument can be made that anything that changes (improves) performance is changing how the truck was designed to operate, and as I've said before, you just can't go to court and win a case like that. Totally aside from the legal team Ford pays whether they're in court litigating or eating donuts in the office, Ford just has an incredible database of stuff you wouldn't even think of, for every little nut and bolt in the thing.
Somewhere there is a memo, study or document that explains why the solenoid has #30 torx bolt heads instead of 8mm bolts like all the other valve bodies. I have no idea why, but somewhere there is a reason, and if you fail a tranny and they find that you put regular bolts on there instead of ones with torx heads, (they're the same thread and length etc...) AND they think it may have caused the problem, you can bet they'll find that piece of paper, and it'll show up in court. They spent prolly $10K or more to put in a different machine for those bolts as oppesed to the one that torques the other 20 bolts on the wormtrail, they had some reason for doing it. ( I have no idea myself)
How about this, as a total hypothetical....
They void your warranty for a deep pan and no other mods. Ridiculous? right?
Well, how about if there was a study done in 1987, that basically said, the shallow pan has a different splash profile that works better, but for the 4x4 you need the extra 24 oz of fluid, we'll accept the risk of the pump starving a few seconds on the deep pan in a 4X4, but in these XXX models, it's not worth that risk, so use the shallow pan, which under most circumstances protects from splash related fluid starvation better.
So you get a deep pan, a year later your tranny fails, and the ONLY mod is the deep pan. Warranty analysis determines that it was fluid starved, but the filter was firmly in place. You just don't even think for a minute this is valid and you fight it all the way to court, and then some engineer pulls out this study on the stand, and says "yeah, we knew the deep pan wasn't as good, and on the models we put it on, we just decided to eat the extra warranty costs for other considerations, but on the models that didn't need it, it wasn't worth the extra warranty costs that we knew it would lead to, and that's why we denied this claim, it was a problem we knew about, and our engineers decided on that model it wouldn't work as well, even though it's the factory part on other models" And then the judge says "Next Case?"
I don't think that would actually happen, but if it did (and though I know the study was actually done, I have no idea whether it said the shallow pan was better under any circumstances, that's just a fable) you would lose, plain and simple. This is why I avoid the "Screwed by Ford on Warranty" threads, and something you should consider. There are a lot of things you don't know, haven't considered, and are in one way kind of really out there, but valid anyway, legally if not morally.....
G
Sorry it's kind of long winded....
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by SVT_KY
That huge "TUNED BY" sticker in the back window???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, it's a funny story though. Wish I could tell it.
The post above made it look like I was trying to tell you how to "cheat" Ford, and I'd never do that, I was just stating that most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference, and if it makes it back to the factory, all they check for are things that aren't affected by the parts changed. I can't say what the "official position" is, but if the valve body is properly assembled, it won't do anything that will cause a failure. Without getting into the technical stuff, it's a change in calibration, and it's done exactly the way Ford changes the calibration for different models, so it comes closer to Moss Magneson than most mods.
Most people here tend to see MM act as " I can do anything I want and they have to prove IT caused the problem" which I guess there may be a good legal argument for. It's certainly the position SEMA would have you believe.
After reading a lot about it, and talking about it with someone who is very familiar with how it actually works, I think that it's much closer to being "I can use Quaker State instead of of Motorcraft oil", a point I think is equally valid. The law is really more about using non OEM replacement parts, and all of these have some sort of standard that makes them more or less commodities, oil has SAE specs, body panels have a NHTSA number, etc... that more or less certifies them as being OEM equals, but a valid "legal" argument can be made that anything that changes (improves) performance is changing how the truck was designed to operate, and as I've said before, you just can't go to court and win a case like that. Totally aside from the legal team Ford pays whether they're in court litigating or eating donuts in the office, Ford just has an incredible database of stuff you wouldn't even think of, for every little nut and bolt in the thing.
Somewhere there is a memo, study or document that explains why the solenoid has #30 torx bolt heads instead of 8mm bolts like all the other valve bodies. I have no idea why, but somewhere there is a reason, and if you fail a tranny and they find that you put regular bolts on there instead of ones with torx heads, (they're the same thread and length etc...) AND they think it may have caused the problem, you can bet they'll find that piece of paper, and it'll show up in court. They spent prolly $10K or more to put in a different machine for those bolts as oppesed to the one that torques the other 20 bolts on the wormtrail, they had some reason for doing it. ( I have no idea myself)
How about this, as a total hypothetical....
They void your warranty for a deep pan and no other mods. Ridiculous? right?
Well, how about if there was a study done in 1987, that basically said, the shallow pan has a different splash profile that works better, but for the 4x4 you need the extra 24 oz of fluid, we'll accept the risk of the pump starving a few seconds on the deep pan in a 4X4, but in these XXX models, it's not worth that risk, so use the shallow pan, which under most circumstances protects from splash related fluid starvation better.
So you get a deep pan, a year later your tranny fails, and the ONLY mod is the deep pan. Warranty analysis determines that it was fluid starved, but the filter was firmly in place. You just don't even think for a minute this is valid and you fight it all the way to court, and then some engineer pulls out this study on the stand, and says "yeah, we knew the deep pan wasn't as good, and on the models we put it on, we just decided to eat the extra warranty costs for other considerations, but on the models that didn't need it, it wasn't worth the extra warranty costs that we knew it would lead to, and that's why we denied this claim, it was a problem we knew about, and our engineers decided on that model it wouldn't work as well, even though it's the factory part on other models" And then the judge says "Next Case?"
I don't think that would actually happen, but if it did (and though I know the study was actually done, I have no idea whether it said the shallow pan was better under any circumstances, that's just a fable) you would lose, plain and simple. This is why I avoid the "Screwed by Ford on Warranty" threads, and something you should consider. There are a lot of things you don't know, haven't considered, and are in one way kind of really out there, but valid anyway, legally if not morally.....
G