I have never changed my 02 sensors(18k miles). I have run octane boost from time to time as well as unleaded race gas(never leaded).

 

Just by your wording Im assuing these tests were done with the WDS.

A reletive compression test is just what it means. Reletive...Compression is measured as a reletive measurement compaired to all cylinders. Using mean cranking RPM and a few other variables....You can have a totaly worn out engine, with equaly poor cylinders , and it will come up with 100% reletive copmression across the board, since all cylinders are bad.

What you realy need to do is an actual compression measurement. Find out what your cylinder volume is at TDC, and measure cylinder head volume.. Also if you are running custome cams,, incorrect valve timing can cause increase static compression which would cause similar issues as high compression.

You also need to look at some basics. What is your A/F when you begin to detonate. If you are still in a safe range (11.5-12.5:1). And it starts to detonate, than the problem isnt fuel, or injector pulse rate....Your building up too much cylinder tempature, Be it from cylinder pressure (boost and high compression, or improperly timed cams), or from too much timing.

Detonation is most likely to occure at torque peak. You can generaly add timing in after that point, however you can still add too much..

 

Since PMs dont work.. J15, your online now. Use AIM, and IM me. Anniversarystang is my AOL SN

 

Yes

No aftermarket cams. I understand that all cylinders could be bad but with a built motor with only about 12k on it I doubt it. Ill try a few other things such as new PCM, new O2s, etc before I pay for an actual compressions test.

I ping on tip in a lot, when I go to the dyno we only measure WOT. I havent had a chance to measure my A/F on tip in where most of the pinging is.

Your not on AOL anymore so if you want you can e-mail me @ J15BIG@comcast.net

Thanks for the help!

 

are these the same o2's that was in the truck when your engine let go. i think you should change out the o2's atleast that would be (process of elimination) one less thing you will know that should be working properly.

 

Joe,

MOVE TO NY

I run 18 degrees 24/7 on pump gas

I hope your running Denso IT-22's for starters ???
Detonation CAN BE caused by excessive Cylinder Temps.
TR-6's would not be good for you, what plug are you running ?
And What Gap ???

But Yes, There is something you can do
http://www.snowperformance.net/

1. Far More Power...
Water/Methanol Injection allows
you to safely run more boost and
timing
2. Reduced Intake Temp...
Up to 130 F drop in intake
temperature results in a denser,
more powerful air/fuel charge.
3. No Loss in Boost as with an
intercooler.
4. Dual Fuel Capability...
No need to run high octance racing
fuel - add high octane methanol
at boost when needed.

1. What are the benefits of Water/Methanol injection?

Boost Cooler Benefits:

a. Low cost - where else can you get up to 60HP for $299.00

b. More power than other means of detonation control.

c. Efficiency - leaner air fuel ratio can be utilized for normal operation.

d. Greatly increases air charge densities for huge horsepower increases.


2. Do I need an Intercooler with Water/Methanol injection?

Up to approximately 20 psi boost, water/methanol injection will provide all the density increase/detonation control needed in most applications. Of course, Intercooling and water/methanol injection would provide even greater benefits especially beyond 20 psi boost.

Most intercoolers are only 50% efficient. That means for example, that with 11psi boost and its 120-degree air charge temperature increase, an intercooler reduces the air charge temperature only 60 degrees. Also, an intercooler will reduce boost 2 - 4 psi.


3. Why not use a windshsield washer pump?

Water/Methanol must be injected at above 50psi to properly atomize. Lower than 50psi causes greatly reduced air charge cooling as the result of larger droplets and their reduced surface area.


4. Why methanol?

Methanol is a high octane fuel that is extremely resistant to detonation with an excellent cost/benefit ration ($1.50 - $2.00 per gallon.) It's high latent heat of vaporization also make it an excellent air charge cooler which means a denser mixture and more horsepower. Because of these facts, it is a better anti-detonant than ethanol or iso-propanol although they will work in a pinch. It has however only about 60% of the energy content of gasoline by volume so about twice as much is used to make similar power. It is extremely toxic and should be handled with rubber gloves in well ventilated areas only. Care should be taken to avoid skin contact.


5. How much Water/Methanol?

To prevent detonation, the ratio of Water/Methanol to gasoline is roughly 1 to 4 (see graph). In practice, you give it as much water / methanol as it takes to eliminate detonation. The amount depends on the onset RPM of injection, the octane of the gasoline, fuel/air ratio, cylinder head type, even the weather conditions. Your engine is actually pretty tolerant of extra water vapor, you will know it's too much when the engine misses and loses power.


6. Where can I purchase Methanol?

Methanol can generally be purchased where racing fuels are sold. Also, most gas line dryers like "Heat" are simply Methanol. Suppliers of industrial chemicals can also supply Methanol usually at a higher price than fuel suppliers. If all else fails, most windshield washer fluids are up to 50% Methanol and 50% water.


7. How long will a tank (2 qts.) last?

In high boost/high horsepower application, a full blast 1/4 mile run will utilize as much as 1/8 tank. A larger tank should be considered if over 9psi boost is utilized in road racing where a tank can be used in as few as 6 - 2 mile/ full tilt laps. Under normal street use in a 400 HP Mustang, a tank usually lasts about 500 miles. More will always be used when the system is first installed, less when the novelty wears off.


8. Can I use windshield washer fluid?

Although most contain some glycol and detergent, most windshield washer fluids are up to 50% alcohol (methanol, ethanol, isopropanol) and make an excellent boost cooler. Try to find one that indicates "contains methanol".


9. At what boost level do I introduce Water/Methanol?

Generally, at 6psi boost the recommended quantity should be introduced.


10. What ratio of Water/Methanol is recommended?

A 50/50 ratio is recommended. This has been demonstrated to be the best for charge/air cooling, decent fuel octane increase, and controlling cylinder temperature. Using more Methanol causes greatly increased cylinder temperature.


11. Many recommend Denso Iridium spark plugs in boosted applications. Will these work also with
water/methanol injection?

Denso Iridium spark plugs are highly recommended with the Boost Cooler. Iridiums, with their low firing thresholds and intense spark, allow for larger quantities to be injected sooner without misfiring. This allows for more cooling of the intake air. If you have a misfiring problem, nine times out of ten, Iridiums will clear it up.
12. Will water/methanol harm my engine?

In theory, at recommended quantities, most of the mixture is evaporated before it hits the combustion chamber. Also, injection only takes place at high boost levels minimizing cylinder wash concerns. Engines that have been torn down after two years of water/methanol usage have shown no wear issues only clean combustion chambers. In fact, water/methanol reduces the probability of engine destroying detonation. Think of it as an insurance policy against detonation.

13. Can the Boost Cooler be applied to naturally aspirated and nitrous engines?

1.Naturally aspirated/high compression engines:

In this application, water/methanol injection allows the use of pump fuel in all but the most extreme situations which effects tremendous cost savings as well as horsepower increases due to air density increase and realized timing potential. The system is activated by a throttle switch so that injection takes place only during high engine loads when needed.

2. NOS engines: With NOS, water/methanol injection allows the use of full timing even with large (250HP+) quantities. Injection is controlled by the same means that controls NOS injection.

3. Naturally aspirated/stock compression: With naturally aspirated engines with less than 10:1 compression, water/methanol is used typically in warm climates to get the intake temps back to 60°f. Benefits include: 10-15 HP increases from air density increases and full timing, Increased gas mileage, and carbon free combustion chambers. Activation is by a throttle switch adjusted for onset engine load. With this application, the nozzle is sized so that no more than 10% of total fuel consumption at peak flywheel HP is injected.

 

Are you running this Rob02?

 

No
but only because I'm getting away with 18 degrees of timing on pump gas all yr long with no Detonation and trouble.
I do wan't to give it a try though, anything that can cool air inlet and cylinder temp, is a MAJOR plus on a Lightning

 

I don`t know if this applys to our trucks or not, I was reading on another board were someone was having trouble with bad detonation and tryed everything to fix it, what was finally discovered to be the problem was the barometric presure sensor was bad, once it was replaced it fixed the problem.
I don`t know if our trucks use a sensor like this or not, but its worth looking into.

Larry.

 

Rob, heat and pressure are two sides of the same coin. Many engine builders go through great lengthes to hold as much as heat as possible inside the combustion chamber. Higher cylinder temp= more pressure= more power. Detonation is caused by hot spots on the piston top, CC or valve faces. When two flame fronts colide you get detonation.

 

I'm sorry rscoleman,
I know I don't exacly give scientific answers, sorry bout that.
Yes by steppin up the HP and Boost via extra pulley and timing, it's that extra heat and cylinder pressure that is in fact giving us our HP "but it's also the cause of the detonation too"

Thats why I asked if he's running cold enough plugs
before going any further. Also he needs to make sure he's running super rich due to his climate.
I would absolutely recommend Denso IT-22's for his set up,
they're known for getting the most heat out, and also for not misfiring or loading up, allowing for a richer tune, without loosing performance.

Speeder
This injection theroy will work on ANY VEHICLE. (if it's needed)Schitt I've been squirting water into my carb's for decades to stop pinging. (sorry, I'm showing my age)

Here's some REALLY good info on Detonation
http://www.misterfixit.com/deton.htm

 

No entirely true.
Heat is energy, the less engine soak you get the more power comes out. So heat flow rather than heat soak makes power. And yes higher cylinder temperature = more pressure = more power.

Detonation occurs when the engine fires to far BTDC. This is caused by the hot spots that you are talking about. Which can be timing, AF ratio, or a combination.

Coliding 2 Flame fronts have nothing to do with detonation. Only if it fires due to a hot spot prior to the plug, which means it fired to early.

 

Thats a link most people should read before slapping a bunch of mods on their truck. BTW Rob, I just have a different opinion of cylinder temp ALWAYS causing detonation, not trying to step on your toes man.

 

I officially take back that statement rscoleman
Your 100% right. I should not use the word ALWAYS
A Bad sensors, lean conditions, clogged or improper sized injectors, under pressured or volumed fuel pumps, clogged fuel filter, wrong heat range of plugs, bad or too low of octane gas, and many more factors cause Detonation.

We happen to see it when we add pulley and timing due to this extra heat and cylinder pressure but that DOES NOT mean it's too much heat or pressure, it just means we may need to make some other changes to compensate for this condition,
Sorry bout that

 

Since you run an Autologic chip, why don't you give Danny Swanson a call. He is in Torrance Ca. Danny should be able to burn you a program that won't ping. He tunes my truck and I have stepped up to 15 or 16 pounds of boost on 91 octane with zero pinging. It will be very hard to step down in boost, because you loose so much power and torque. Just get the proper tune and you will forget about that little sporty car! Swanson Performance #: (310) 787-7800. Get it tuned right, because you have too much time, effort and money in it and you can't even hammer the pedal! Good luck, Skip