Very well then. Forgive the dumb question

 

care to explain that??????

It does the most protection for the least amount of money

 

I think what he means is that the differences between say motorcraft syth blend and mobil1 in terms of ACTUAL PROTECTION (not oil quality) is pretty much nil if not entirely so. If the change interval is 3000 miles, you would reap absolutely zero benefit choosing one over the other. People are still holding onto the old mentality that it does, but scientifically speaking, theres no evidence to back it up. So even if mobil was doing something different with their oil, it simply wouldn't make much of a difference.

Start going to extended changes and bypasses, then yes, perhaps its a different story.

 

woah there... synthetic oil isn't superior to conventional oil?

B.S.!

alot of people seem to be under the misconception that modular motors don't wear out... incorrect. and if anything modular motors are even more susceptable (sp?) to oil related failures due to the tight tolerances designed into these engines. I have seen modular motors come into the shop with the cams locked up in the heads due to neglected oil change maintenance. not that synthetic oil will make an engine impervious to owner neglect, but it might help prolong the engine life somewhat.

can conventional oil provide adequate protection for a 4.6 or 5.4 to last 100,000 miles (or more). Absolutely. so indeed, on an average modular engine, using synthetic oil for "added wear protection" may be pissing into the wind so to speak.

However I personally don't consider my engine (now or before) to be average. I don't know about you guys, but the engine in my truck is exposed to harsh conditions and high load situations on a daily basis.

In extreme high temperature and/or high load situations synthetic oil will DEFINATELY protect better than conventional oil because it doesn't break down, coke, or flash off until significantly higher temperatures. if racing a 5000lb truck with 400-700HP on tap doesn't create high load/high heat situations, then I don't know what would. also, as I said, the synthetics burn off at much higher temps than conventional oils, so this means less deposits.

also, as everyone knows, synthetic oil flows faster at lower temperatures in comparison to conventional oil, which means that oil gets from the pan to moving parts faster with synthetic.

let's not forget that synthetic oils have in many cases been dyno proven to add HP! that is what we are all here for. if I can add 10HP by using synthetic oil, then fine, synthetic oil it is. synthetic oil is superior in this regard hands down!

also synthetic oils are reported to improve fuel economy due to reduced friction, and the fact that they require less hp to pump through the engine. (I've personally never seen any evidence to support or negate this point)

but aside from HP, the first and foremost reason that I personally use synthetic oil is because it resists sludging and deposits far better than conventional oils.

with no traffic, I live less than 8 minutes from my place of work. with traffic, maybe 12 minutes. until recently, and for the past 5 years, I have literally lived within 2-5 minutes of my previous place of work. this simply isn't enough time for the engine to reach full operating temperatures. this type of short distance driving is very hard on the engine and the oil. if it doesn't get hot enough regularly, the engine can't burn off moisture in the crankcase and is more likely to leave deposits in the form of sludge. synthetic oil provides added protection during short trip and stop/go driving that conventional oils can't, because they are less prone to sludging.

those are the two main reasons that I like synthetic oil, better for my type of driving (lots of short trips, and when not on short trips, then pretty much WOT!)


and increased HP!

also, I hear that synthetics offer better protection to your rubber intake boot and your lower intake manifold as well!

just my .02

later,
chris

 

I get your point, which is why i stated very specifically:

Actually there is one thing, in extreme cold I would highly recommend a syn, because as you stated it flows easier, particularily on startup. Once an oil is at temp however, i don' know enough to say if that holds true or not, I'm tempted to say that it doesnt, its a matter of weight rating, but I'm not sure.

And while your point is valid about short runs and not reaching temp, that may be true, but if you still change your oil at 3000, i can't see it being an issue one way or another, JMO.

Can't argue with more HP tho.

 

Superfords. Nobody (at least I didn't) said that Synthetic oils aren't better. My contetntion is, they aren't always necessary as some people might think. I appreciate your input as a mechanic, but even you said that the oil related failures that you have seen are due to negleted maintenance schedules. A synthetic would actually protect longer, but if you go beyond the recommended drain intervals for synthetics you can have an oil related problem also. Many of the drawbacks of conventional oils you refer to is from older technology. Many of the base stocks used today in conventional oils can rival the synthetic base stocks. Chevron makes one of the best base oils available and has also sold the technology to others. Their base stocks are truly amazing for a dino base oil. Gaining 10 hp form synthetics? Very unlikely. As you know, it's virtually impossible to make comparisons on different dyno runs, and it's not that uncommon to gain or lose 10 hp without any modifications on seperate runs on a dyno. Most people sell their trucks before the engine has any appreciable wear anyway, so if a synthetic oil was to show less wear, as an owner, you probably wouldn't benefit from it unless you kept it for a long time. Majority of Lightning owners have very few miles in comparison to other vehicles. My 5.4 is just ready to turn 100,00 miles and I have never (knock on wood) had anything oil related fail on mine using Chevron Supreme Motor Oil. My SUV sees very short trips (3 miles each way to work) and has been used for towing a boat so it's seen some extreme use. I have nothing against synthetics, as I definitely make more money on sales of synthetic oils, but a quality dino oil will perform adequate for 90% of the uses. I have seen oil analysis that has proven this. If I were doing a lot of racing, and building an engine like yours, I would probably go with one of the synthetics that is readily available also, but the majority of people on this forum aren't in that category. Don't get me wrong, synthetics are fantastic oils, but just not necessary, especially if being drained at 3,000 miles.

 

I will bet that 95% or more of the Lightning owners use synthetic oil. I'm one of them. But I just buy what ever synthetic is sitting in front of me (usually Mobil 1). Why? Because I can afford it and because my commute is only a couple of miles.

Horsepower? All I've ever seen documented was about 4 HP conv vs. syn in a Hot Rod magazine test. Fuel economy improvement might logically be expected somewhere near that (at least on that order of magnitude).

My point was not that synthetics were not better than conventionals, only that all this blah blah blah about which oil is better is for the birds.

But consider the following conclusions from an exhaustive Consumer Reports test of motor oils in NYC taxicabs in 1996:

"None of the tested oils proved better than the others in our tests. There may be small differences that our tests didn't reveal, but unless you typically drive under more severe conditions than a New York cab does, you won't go wrong if you shop strictly by price or availability. Buy the viscosity grade recommended in your owner's manual, and look for the starburst emblem. Even the expensive synthetics (typically, $3 or $4 a quart) worked no better than conventional motor oils in our taxi tests, but they're worth considering for extreme driving conditions high ambient temperatures and high engine load or very cold temperatures.

On the basis of our test results, we think that the commonly recommended 3,000-mile oil-change interval is conservative. For "normal" service, 7,500-mile intervals (or the recommendation in your owner's manual) should be fine. Change the oil at least that often to protect your engine and maintain your warranty. Even for the severe service experienced by the taxis in our tests a 6,000- mile interval was adequate. But some severe service - frequent cold starts and short trips, dusty conditions, trailer towing - may require a shorter interval. Note, too, that special engines such as diesels and turbos, which we didn't test, may need more frequent oil changes.

We don't recommend stretching the change interval beyond the automaker's recommendations, no matter what oil you use. Engine combustion contaminants could eventually build up and harm engine parts.

As for STP Oil Treatment, STP Engine Treatment, and Slick 50 Engine Treatment, our advice is simple: If you use an oil with the starburst symbol, you don't need them."

So it for sure doesn't make any difference if Mobil 1 has reduced the Teflon content, which was the question.

 

Anybody who has rebuilt a decent amount of engines (with high milage) can tell you there is a differance in oils. And in particular how important the regular service intervals are.

My cars have run Mobil 1 for many years.

Rich

 

Unless that statement (1) excludes the mechanics who inspected all of the engines for Consumer Reports (and tested a sample at each oil change); (2) assumes that 60,000 miles is not "high mileage," and (3) is referring to differences that are _meaningful_ in terms of engine wear, or (4) assumes some severe conditions not experienced by taxicab engines, then this statement is plainly inaccurate.

Hard data from scientifically conducted studies beats anecdotal evidence every time.

Sure there are measurable differences in oil:



The question is whether those differences are meaningful.

But arguing over oil is like arguing over religion -- no one's mind is going to be changed.

The oil industry is the typical American business -- create fear, then offer a product to quell that fear.

But all data points to the importance of oil change intervals. So, I stick to my initial assertion -- change the oil every 3,000 miles and don't waste your time worrying about the specific formulation of any particular oil.

I use a special environmentally friendly oil from Florida:



Nothing but the best for my engine!

 

I prefer the "Dole" blend strawberry/banana/orange. FYI

 

Gadget you talk to that guy for me?

 

Obvious synthethics can go longer than dino between changes, but what is best for frequent short trips? 3k is throwing your money away and I think 7.5k is too long (short trips), so what is best? I've been changing at 4k? thanks for any responses

 

4,000 to 5,000 miles with a quality oil (dino or synthetic) will work adequately. It might have to be modified slightly depending on conditions where you live and how the truck is being used. But as an oil distributor, I highly recommend sticking with 3,000 miles, and definitely buy the most expensive synthetics.

 

Thats good enough for me

Do you mind if I change my oil every 2500 miles instead of 3K miles