Potential Issue With Dime / Mustang PCV Mod
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03-21-2004, 09:24 PM
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Potential Issue With Dime / Mustang PCV Mod
Gang:
With an intake system full of oil from the boot to the lower intake, I've been studying the bejeezus out of the PCV system (to the point of imminent head explosion) for the past month or so. I'm talking about tracing lines, studying the operation of PCV systems on other vehicles, experimenting with the Lightning system, and talking with some powertrain guys at Daimler-Chrysler (hey - you use whatever connections you have). I'm confident I've got it as figured out as anyone.
Anyhow, armed with a little bit of understanding, the task was then to design a fix and clean all of the oil out of the intake. The less said about the latter 4-day job (including all of the porting, port-matching, and polishing), the better.
Anyhow, as for the PCV...
First, understand what is meant by the term "PCV" and its function. PCV is an acronym for "Positive Crankcase Ventilation". The key word here is "positive". The purpose of the PCV system is to remove blowby gases from the crankcase, which is critical because these gases are rich in water vapor, organic acids, and other nasties. A properly-functioning PCV system (present on every vehicle built) doesn't just allow the gases to escape the crankcase (like, for example, a breather cap would), but actually POSITIVELY scavenges the crankcase by flushing it continuously with clean, metered air. This more-or-less thoroughly cleanses the water vapor and other crap from the crankcase. I'm presuming that simple venting of the crankcase will be "bad", for lack of better quantification, for the long-term longevity of the internal engine components (via corrosion and degradation of oil).
If you look at your typical PCV system on a naturally aspirated vehicle (for example, my POS 1992 Pontiac Grand Prix), it consists of a constant source of metered, clean air (an unobstructed "straw" from the intake boot) through which clean, metered air (the boot is after the MAF) is constantly sucked into the valve cover on the "front" cylinder bank. On the "rear" cylinder bank, thaere is a tube with a check valve (a PCV valve) plumbed from the valve cover to the bottom of the intake manifold. The manifold is the strongest source of vacuum in the engine, so there is a constant flow of clean air sucked through the crankcase under all conditions, constantly flushing blowby gases (which are then burned).
The Lightning system looks very much like this, and under all vacuum conditions (when not under boost), this is exactly how the PCV system works. However, it gets a little more complicated due to the fact that the lower intake is pressurized under boost. Therefore, to maintain POSITIVE crankcase scavenging under boost, the PCV valve installed in the Lightning is non-functional (not a functioning check valve) to allow the flow to reverse. Under boost, the source of clean, metered air is the tube from the lower intake to the passenger's side valve cover. The crankcase is (under boost) constantly flushed by this air, which is pushed through through the crankcase under rather high pressure, exiting the driver's side valve cover and blown into the boot (through the driver's side "straw" that runs from the valve cover to the boot), ultimately being burned after a trip through the entire induction system.
To be continued...
With an intake system full of oil from the boot to the lower intake, I've been studying the bejeezus out of the PCV system (to the point of imminent head explosion) for the past month or so. I'm talking about tracing lines, studying the operation of PCV systems on other vehicles, experimenting with the Lightning system, and talking with some powertrain guys at Daimler-Chrysler (hey - you use whatever connections you have). I'm confident I've got it as figured out as anyone.
Anyhow, armed with a little bit of understanding, the task was then to design a fix and clean all of the oil out of the intake. The less said about the latter 4-day job (including all of the porting, port-matching, and polishing), the better.
Anyhow, as for the PCV...
First, understand what is meant by the term "PCV" and its function. PCV is an acronym for "Positive Crankcase Ventilation". The key word here is "positive". The purpose of the PCV system is to remove blowby gases from the crankcase, which is critical because these gases are rich in water vapor, organic acids, and other nasties. A properly-functioning PCV system (present on every vehicle built) doesn't just allow the gases to escape the crankcase (like, for example, a breather cap would), but actually POSITIVELY scavenges the crankcase by flushing it continuously with clean, metered air. This more-or-less thoroughly cleanses the water vapor and other crap from the crankcase. I'm presuming that simple venting of the crankcase will be "bad", for lack of better quantification, for the long-term longevity of the internal engine components (via corrosion and degradation of oil).
If you look at your typical PCV system on a naturally aspirated vehicle (for example, my POS 1992 Pontiac Grand Prix), it consists of a constant source of metered, clean air (an unobstructed "straw" from the intake boot) through which clean, metered air (the boot is after the MAF) is constantly sucked into the valve cover on the "front" cylinder bank. On the "rear" cylinder bank, thaere is a tube with a check valve (a PCV valve) plumbed from the valve cover to the bottom of the intake manifold. The manifold is the strongest source of vacuum in the engine, so there is a constant flow of clean air sucked through the crankcase under all conditions, constantly flushing blowby gases (which are then burned).
The Lightning system looks very much like this, and under all vacuum conditions (when not under boost), this is exactly how the PCV system works. However, it gets a little more complicated due to the fact that the lower intake is pressurized under boost. Therefore, to maintain POSITIVE crankcase scavenging under boost, the PCV valve installed in the Lightning is non-functional (not a functioning check valve) to allow the flow to reverse. Under boost, the source of clean, metered air is the tube from the lower intake to the passenger's side valve cover. The crankcase is (under boost) constantly flushed by this air, which is pushed through through the crankcase under rather high pressure, exiting the driver's side valve cover and blown into the boot (through the driver's side "straw" that runs from the valve cover to the boot), ultimately being burned after a trip through the entire induction system.
To be continued...
#2
03-21-2004, 09:41 PM
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Continued...
Anyhow, these parts of the Lightning PCV system, as-designed, appear to be a correct and effective design for continuously flushing the crankcase under all conditions of boost and vacuum.
However, it gets a bit more complicated.
There is an unfortunate oil ingestion issue that is the result of several overlaid design features/flaws. First, there is insufficient/nonexistent baffling within the valve covers near the ports where the PCV tubing penetrates the covers. Particularly under high RPM, the crankcase is full of oil mist which is a result of oil being slung at very high velocity from the rotating assembly and valvetrain. In the absence of effective baffling, this mist is ingested into the PCV system, regardless of which direction the system is flowing. Under vacuum, the oil mist is sucked into the lower intake underneath the intercooler core, where it is deposited. Quite a puddle builds up in there in short order, as the VAST, VAST majority of flow through the PCV system is under vacuum conditions. I'm guessing that in street-driven Lightnings, the flow is in this direction (from the intake boot to the lower intake) a good 99 percent of the time.
Under boost, the oil mist is blasted into the rubber intake boot (between the MAF and the throttle body) at high velocity, spraying the throttle body and everything downstream from there.
A second unfortunate design feature is the lack of an effective oil separator in the PCV system, which could disengage the oil and drain it back to the crankcase. For example, the woeful GM Quad-4 has such a device, which sits right on top of the valve cover.
So you have oil mist being ingested under all conditions, regardless of whether the engine is under vacuum or boost. The vacuum condition isn't so bad, it would seem, as the oil is deposited deep into the lower intake, where it can't really gunk anything up. The boost condition is much worse, as this contaminates the entire induction from the rubber intake boot downstream.
The Lance "Big Tex" Armstrong Nike/boxing as is on right now, and it rules.
To be continued...
However, it gets a bit more complicated.
There is an unfortunate oil ingestion issue that is the result of several overlaid design features/flaws. First, there is insufficient/nonexistent baffling within the valve covers near the ports where the PCV tubing penetrates the covers. Particularly under high RPM, the crankcase is full of oil mist which is a result of oil being slung at very high velocity from the rotating assembly and valvetrain. In the absence of effective baffling, this mist is ingested into the PCV system, regardless of which direction the system is flowing. Under vacuum, the oil mist is sucked into the lower intake underneath the intercooler core, where it is deposited. Quite a puddle builds up in there in short order, as the VAST, VAST majority of flow through the PCV system is under vacuum conditions. I'm guessing that in street-driven Lightnings, the flow is in this direction (from the intake boot to the lower intake) a good 99 percent of the time.
Under boost, the oil mist is blasted into the rubber intake boot (between the MAF and the throttle body) at high velocity, spraying the throttle body and everything downstream from there.
A second unfortunate design feature is the lack of an effective oil separator in the PCV system, which could disengage the oil and drain it back to the crankcase. For example, the woeful GM Quad-4 has such a device, which sits right on top of the valve cover.
So you have oil mist being ingested under all conditions, regardless of whether the engine is under vacuum or boost. The vacuum condition isn't so bad, it would seem, as the oil is deposited deep into the lower intake, where it can't really gunk anything up. The boost condition is much worse, as this contaminates the entire induction from the rubber intake boot downstream.
The Lance "Big Tex" Armstrong Nike/boxing as is on right now, and it rules.
To be continued...
#3
03-21-2004, 10:05 PM
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Continued...
Well, it gets worse. There is a "T" in the PCV line on the passenger's side (the side that sucks under vacuum, and blows under boost). Rob will have a comment about this last sentence. Anyway, the "T" is connected to the upper intake plenum, near the inlet of the supercharger.
Neither I, nor anyone else I have worked with on this, can determine a GOOD reason for the existence of this tube, as-designed. The only possible explanation is that it provides a third flow path that would provide weak, but positive crankcase scavenging under the very transient condition of lower intake and rubber inlet boot vacuums being matched (right before you go into boost, maybe at 1/8-1/4 throttle). If you were able to maintain this condition for a long time (which is impossible), without the third tube you would have balanced pressures on both sides of the PCV system and no flow of clean air through the crankcase. With the third tube, the highest vacuum point would be in the upper intake plenum near the supercharger inlet, and you would still get positive scavenging by sucking some clean air trough the crankcase via the driver's side "straw" and ito the upper plenum. However, this condition probably occurs for no more than seconds in a month of driving, and thus the third tube (that runs to the upper intake) is more-or-less superfluous.
Well, the double-whammy is that, under boost, the flow through the PCV system on the passenger's side is largely short-circuited due to the presence of the "T" to the upper intake. Recall that the lower intake is full of ingested oil, as an unavoidable consequence of proper PCV functioning under vacuum. Under boost, this oil is BLASTED out of the lower intake under pressure (rather high presssure in some cases) and quite effectively entrained in a VERY high velocity flow of air. I can tell you that 14 PSI air in a 3/8 inch smooth pipe flows at VERY high velocity. As for claims of some sort of pinhole restriction in the line from the lower intake, I can find NO evidence of it.
Anyway, the line from the "T" to the upper intake provides, by far, the lowest-restriction flow path. So the majority of the flow (loaded with oil mist) blows directly into the inlet of the supercharger, gunking up the blower and intercooler core with oil. Heat transfer effeiciency in the core is reduced due to the oil film, robbing power and performance.
The portion of the flow that DOESN'T get blown into the supercharger intake gets forced into the crankcase, and is ultimately blown out the driver's side valve cover laden with oil mist.
Let's also recognize that the flow through the PCV system under boost is complete "robbery" of boost pressure, as you are simply recirculating flow. Like running a hose from the outlet of a pump directly back to the intake.
So how do we fix the various issues of:
1) Oil ingestion into the lower intake under vacuum
2) Oil ingestion into the intake boot under boost
3) Oil ingestion into the upper intake under boost
4) Boost recirculation
WHILE STILL MAINTAINING FULL PCV FUNCTION UNDER ALL CONDITIONS?
To be continued...
Neither I, nor anyone else I have worked with on this, can determine a GOOD reason for the existence of this tube, as-designed. The only possible explanation is that it provides a third flow path that would provide weak, but positive crankcase scavenging under the very transient condition of lower intake and rubber inlet boot vacuums being matched (right before you go into boost, maybe at 1/8-1/4 throttle). If you were able to maintain this condition for a long time (which is impossible), without the third tube you would have balanced pressures on both sides of the PCV system and no flow of clean air through the crankcase. With the third tube, the highest vacuum point would be in the upper intake plenum near the supercharger inlet, and you would still get positive scavenging by sucking some clean air trough the crankcase via the driver's side "straw" and ito the upper plenum. However, this condition probably occurs for no more than seconds in a month of driving, and thus the third tube (that runs to the upper intake) is more-or-less superfluous.
Well, the double-whammy is that, under boost, the flow through the PCV system on the passenger's side is largely short-circuited due to the presence of the "T" to the upper intake. Recall that the lower intake is full of ingested oil, as an unavoidable consequence of proper PCV functioning under vacuum. Under boost, this oil is BLASTED out of the lower intake under pressure (rather high presssure in some cases) and quite effectively entrained in a VERY high velocity flow of air. I can tell you that 14 PSI air in a 3/8 inch smooth pipe flows at VERY high velocity. As for claims of some sort of pinhole restriction in the line from the lower intake, I can find NO evidence of it.
Anyway, the line from the "T" to the upper intake provides, by far, the lowest-restriction flow path. So the majority of the flow (loaded with oil mist) blows directly into the inlet of the supercharger, gunking up the blower and intercooler core with oil. Heat transfer effeiciency in the core is reduced due to the oil film, robbing power and performance.
The portion of the flow that DOESN'T get blown into the supercharger intake gets forced into the crankcase, and is ultimately blown out the driver's side valve cover laden with oil mist.
Let's also recognize that the flow through the PCV system under boost is complete "robbery" of boost pressure, as you are simply recirculating flow. Like running a hose from the outlet of a pump directly back to the intake.
So how do we fix the various issues of:
1) Oil ingestion into the lower intake under vacuum
2) Oil ingestion into the intake boot under boost
3) Oil ingestion into the upper intake under boost
4) Boost recirculation
WHILE STILL MAINTAINING FULL PCV FUNCTION UNDER ALL CONDITIONS?
To be continued...
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03-21-2004, 10:12 PM
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03-21-2004, 10:17 PM
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#6
03-21-2004, 10:25 PM
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Continued...
The short answer is, "YOU CAN'T". So you go for some sort of compromise.
You could install 100% effective oil separators on all three branches of the PCV system, but not only would this reduce flow through the PCV circuit (separators inherently have an associated pressure drop), but it's a nightmare from an engineering standpoint. Plus, this still wouldn't address the boost recirculation.
Anything you do to address the boost recirculation (replacing the existing PCV valve with a proper check valve or any other changes or check-valving the line to the lower intake) partially or completely destroys proper PCV function (scavenging with clean air) under boost.
So what is the answer?
Well, I think that you have to rank the various issues in order of priority. The oil deposition into the intake upstream of the lower intake (this means the blowing of oil mist into the upper plenum and rubber intake boot under boost) is the biggie. Everything we do is basically in an attempt to stop this. I'm guessing that anything that won't blow the motor up is in play.
Second priority is maintaining proper PCV function under all conditions for long-tern engine health reasons.
Third is eliminating bost recirculation.
Fourth and last is aesthetic issues (appearance, cleanliness, maintenance).
First, let's look at the much-discussed "Dime / Mustang / Cobra PCV Mod / Kit". You know the one.
It basically consists of a functioning (very well-functioning, at that) PCV (check) valve that is installs into the passenger's side valve cover in place of the stock (non-functioning) Lightning PCV valve. Plus, you get a steel "blank" that you insert into the line from the "T" to the upper intake plenum on the passenger's side of the PCV system.
Let's think about the effect of this kit on the functioning of the PCV system.
On the positive side, it completely stops oil mist from being blown into the upper plenum (intake side of the supercharger) under boost, as the entire line is effectively removed from the system. This is, BY FAR, the most egregious source of oil into the induction system upstream of the lower intake. It also GREATLY, if not completely, reduces the ingestion of oil mist into the rubber intake boot under boost. Due to the functioning PCV valve, there is no longer a high-velocity oil-laden stream of dirty air being blown into the boot under boost. Additionally, due to both the functioning PCV and the "blank", recirculation of boost is completely eliminated. Pretty good, huh?
So, does anybody see the problems with this system?
To be continued...
You could install 100% effective oil separators on all three branches of the PCV system, but not only would this reduce flow through the PCV circuit (separators inherently have an associated pressure drop), but it's a nightmare from an engineering standpoint. Plus, this still wouldn't address the boost recirculation.
Anything you do to address the boost recirculation (replacing the existing PCV valve with a proper check valve or any other changes or check-valving the line to the lower intake) partially or completely destroys proper PCV function (scavenging with clean air) under boost.
So what is the answer?
Well, I think that you have to rank the various issues in order of priority. The oil deposition into the intake upstream of the lower intake (this means the blowing of oil mist into the upper plenum and rubber intake boot under boost) is the biggie. Everything we do is basically in an attempt to stop this. I'm guessing that anything that won't blow the motor up is in play.
Second priority is maintaining proper PCV function under all conditions for long-tern engine health reasons.
Third is eliminating bost recirculation.
Fourth and last is aesthetic issues (appearance, cleanliness, maintenance).
First, let's look at the much-discussed "Dime / Mustang / Cobra PCV Mod / Kit". You know the one.
It basically consists of a functioning (very well-functioning, at that) PCV (check) valve that is installs into the passenger's side valve cover in place of the stock (non-functioning) Lightning PCV valve. Plus, you get a steel "blank" that you insert into the line from the "T" to the upper intake plenum on the passenger's side of the PCV system.
Let's think about the effect of this kit on the functioning of the PCV system.
On the positive side, it completely stops oil mist from being blown into the upper plenum (intake side of the supercharger) under boost, as the entire line is effectively removed from the system. This is, BY FAR, the most egregious source of oil into the induction system upstream of the lower intake. It also GREATLY, if not completely, reduces the ingestion of oil mist into the rubber intake boot under boost. Due to the functioning PCV valve, there is no longer a high-velocity oil-laden stream of dirty air being blown into the boot under boost. Additionally, due to both the functioning PCV and the "blank", recirculation of boost is completely eliminated. Pretty good, huh?
So, does anybody see the problems with this system?
To be continued...
#7
03-21-2004, 10:47 PM
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Continued...
The problems with the "Dime / Mustang / Cobra / PCV / Mod / Kit" are, by my best accounting...
For starters, you completely lose proper PCV function under conditions of boost and when lower intake and intake boot vacuum are matched. The crankcase is still vented, but not scavenged. You may be able to live with this, as these two conditions only occur during a small (VERY small) percentage of driving conditions, and I would agree with you if you feel this way. The crankcase is still VENTED (through the driver's side tube to the rubber intake boot, in fact, with some vacuum assist), but you still have COMPLETELY destroyed proper PCV function. Something to consider, but, in my opinion, not to really sweat. You MIGHT still get a little oil wafting into the boot, but you certainly wont get mist-laden air driven into there by boost pressure blasted into the crankcase.
However, the big issue, and you may have figured this one out by now, is that you COMPLETELY eliminate any purge point for all of the oil that pools up in the lower intake. And I can tell you that it's a PANT-LOAD. No matter what you do, other than installing a PCV-choking separator on the line to the lower intake, you're going to be almost constantly depositing oil into the lower intake (any time that the engine is under vacuum). By eliminating ANY AND ALL reverse flow paths out of the lower intake under boost, there is no way for this oil to escape the floor of the lower intake.
Now, think about the reported oil consumption rates for some of the over-boosted Lightnings out there. I think that a half-quart per 3000 miles is not out of line. There's no doubt that the majority of this escapes the crankcase via the PCV system. So, either you're going to pool up as much as a gallon of Mobil One per 25,000 miles, or have to burn all of that up (picture your intake valves and plugs after drinking all of that).
Now, what do I consider to be the best compromise?
To be continued...
For starters, you completely lose proper PCV function under conditions of boost and when lower intake and intake boot vacuum are matched. The crankcase is still vented, but not scavenged. You may be able to live with this, as these two conditions only occur during a small (VERY small) percentage of driving conditions, and I would agree with you if you feel this way. The crankcase is still VENTED (through the driver's side tube to the rubber intake boot, in fact, with some vacuum assist), but you still have COMPLETELY destroyed proper PCV function. Something to consider, but, in my opinion, not to really sweat. You MIGHT still get a little oil wafting into the boot, but you certainly wont get mist-laden air driven into there by boost pressure blasted into the crankcase.
However, the big issue, and you may have figured this one out by now, is that you COMPLETELY eliminate any purge point for all of the oil that pools up in the lower intake. And I can tell you that it's a PANT-LOAD. No matter what you do, other than installing a PCV-choking separator on the line to the lower intake, you're going to be almost constantly depositing oil into the lower intake (any time that the engine is under vacuum). By eliminating ANY AND ALL reverse flow paths out of the lower intake under boost, there is no way for this oil to escape the floor of the lower intake.
Now, think about the reported oil consumption rates for some of the over-boosted Lightnings out there. I think that a half-quart per 3000 miles is not out of line. There's no doubt that the majority of this escapes the crankcase via the PCV system. So, either you're going to pool up as much as a gallon of Mobil One per 25,000 miles, or have to burn all of that up (picture your intake valves and plugs after drinking all of that).
Now, what do I consider to be the best compromise?
To be continued...
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#8
03-21-2004, 11:01 PM
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#9
03-21-2004, 11:11 PM
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Continued...
So what do I consider to be the best compromise? What follows is what I actually just installed, following the nightmarish 4-day disassembly / porting / port-matching / polishing / reassembly project.
I agree that the Mustang / Cobra PCV is a worthwhile install, in place of the stock non-functional PCV valve. You do lose positive crankcase scavenging under boost and (possibly) transient near-boost conditions, but since my Lightning is street-driven (a big 9000 miles in 4 years of ownership, at that), i can live with that tiny fractional scavenging loss. As soon as you let off the pedal, the crankcase is scrubbed clean with fresh air. You also reduce one of the two sources (albeit the lesser source) of boost recirculation.
Instead of blanking off the "T" to the upper intake plenum, I installed two Campbell-Hausfeld seaprators in series. With this in place, is now have a functioning purge for all of the oil that WILL get deposited in the lower intake. Also, I might get an infinitesimal improvement in PCV function by leaving this line intact.
The dual separators are VERY, VERY efficient as far as oil collection is concerned. VERY little gets past the first, quite obviously nothing escapes the second. Also, the two separators provide some restriction to further reduce boost recircualtion, although the flow through this circuit under boost is ABSOLUTELY INSANE! I will be experimenting with an in-line restriction soon to reduce the flow, yet still keep velocity high enough to allow oil mist entrainment and subsequent removal in the separators. You only need to see the "oil tornado" in the bowl of the first separator to understand the need for a restrictor.
The appearance of this system (a big beef with some folks) is not bad at all, after several coats of high-temp primer, black, and clear with the airbrush, followed by 5 hours at 200 degrees in the over (wife out of town on business - YES!).
That, in a V E R Y long form, is why I feel that the Dime / Mustang / Cobra / PCV Mod / Kit is not the best solution. The BIG downside is the complete elimination of a (necessary) oil purge from the system.
Give my suggestion a thought, or better yet, design a better one (and support your assertion at length).
I'm now gonna kick back with an enormous (and well-deserved) Woodford Reserve and bash the refresh button - let me know what you think, if anything.
SIR SILVER
I agree that the Mustang / Cobra PCV is a worthwhile install, in place of the stock non-functional PCV valve. You do lose positive crankcase scavenging under boost and (possibly) transient near-boost conditions, but since my Lightning is street-driven (a big 9000 miles in 4 years of ownership, at that), i can live with that tiny fractional scavenging loss. As soon as you let off the pedal, the crankcase is scrubbed clean with fresh air. You also reduce one of the two sources (albeit the lesser source) of boost recirculation.
Instead of blanking off the "T" to the upper intake plenum, I installed two Campbell-Hausfeld seaprators in series. With this in place, is now have a functioning purge for all of the oil that WILL get deposited in the lower intake. Also, I might get an infinitesimal improvement in PCV function by leaving this line intact.
The dual separators are VERY, VERY efficient as far as oil collection is concerned. VERY little gets past the first, quite obviously nothing escapes the second. Also, the two separators provide some restriction to further reduce boost recircualtion, although the flow through this circuit under boost is ABSOLUTELY INSANE! I will be experimenting with an in-line restriction soon to reduce the flow, yet still keep velocity high enough to allow oil mist entrainment and subsequent removal in the separators. You only need to see the "oil tornado" in the bowl of the first separator to understand the need for a restrictor.
The appearance of this system (a big beef with some folks) is not bad at all, after several coats of high-temp primer, black, and clear with the airbrush, followed by 5 hours at 200 degrees in the over (wife out of town on business - YES!).
That, in a V E R Y long form, is why I feel that the Dime / Mustang / Cobra / PCV Mod / Kit is not the best solution. The BIG downside is the complete elimination of a (necessary) oil purge from the system.
Give my suggestion a thought, or better yet, design a better one (and support your assertion at length).
I'm now gonna kick back with an enormous (and well-deserved) Woodford Reserve and bash the refresh button - let me know what you think, if anything.
SIR SILVER
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03-21-2004, 11:12 PM
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More...interesting read tell me more.....
#11
03-22-2004, 12:24 AM
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Oh Well...
So much for trying...
You get a (presumably) asked-for hardcore technical dissertation and you can't buy a reply. Some bandwidth-wasting dingbat gets banned and ther board melts down.
There are still folks wondering why most, if not all, of the hard-core raw-dog old school pillars of the Lightning community have fled here like the plague.
You get a (presumably) asked-for hardcore technical dissertation and you can't buy a reply. Some bandwidth-wasting dingbat gets banned and ther board melts down.
There are still folks wondering why most, if not all, of the hard-core raw-dog old school pillars of the Lightning community have fled here like the plague.
#12
03-22-2004, 12:31 AM
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#13
03-22-2004, 12:58 AM
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well, first off, awesome. i have seen many posts about this topic, but ended more to say 
on all of them. this is the first one to make enough sense as to where i know what your talking about, each individual concern you address, tackle, and eliminate. a penny for your thoughts (or should i say dime for the sake of the PCV mod...he he)
you said you instead of blocking off the apparantly pointless "T", you installed two oil seperators in its place. without a pic im having a hard time trying to see how this works. did you replace the "T" style with a straight tube in its place, to where it looks similar to the drivers side one? or are the seperators on either side of the "T" before it plugs into the upper plenum.....???? i hope that made sense, but probably not. (my brain still hasnt recovered from spring break yet....
)
on all of them. this is the first one to make enough sense as to where i know what your talking about, each individual concern you address, tackle, and eliminate. a penny for your thoughts (or should i say dime for the sake of the PCV mod...he he)you said you instead of blocking off the apparantly pointless "T", you installed two oil seperators in its place. without a pic im having a hard time trying to see how this works. did you replace the "T" style with a straight tube in its place, to where it looks similar to the drivers side one? or are the seperators on either side of the "T" before it plugs into the upper plenum.....???? i hope that made sense, but probably not. (my brain still hasnt recovered from spring break yet....
)
#14
03-22-2004, 01:16 AM
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I have been running the Swanson Kit for over 10,000 miles with absolutely no problem and no more oil in the upper intake. I haven't checked the lower intake.
In the link below Dealerjim talks about how the dime mod has worked for him and shows pics of the intercooler. He put 10,000 miles on that motor running a KB at 15-16 lbs of boost. He ran it about 1,000 miles before we put the dime mod on. I've talked to him twice since he posted that pic and he never mentioned anything about pooled oil in the bottom of the lower intake. I will ask him tomorrow to make sure.
http://www.nloc.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=66088
In the link below Dealerjim talks about how the dime mod has worked for him and shows pics of the intercooler. He put 10,000 miles on that motor running a KB at 15-16 lbs of boost. He ran it about 1,000 miles before we put the dime mod on. I've talked to him twice since he posted that pic and he never mentioned anything about pooled oil in the bottom of the lower intake. I will ask him tomorrow to make sure.
http://www.nloc.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=66088
#15
03-22-2004, 07:16 AM
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And you guys say I have long Post 
Good early morning reading Silver-Y2K-SVT,
I see you (like most of us) have put some serious thought to this.
BUT WHERES THE GOT DAM PICTURES ????
and ya like dark Shadow said
you said you instead of blocking off the apparantly pointless "T", you installed two oil seperators in its place. without a pic im having a hard time trying to see how this works. did you replace the "T" style with a straight tube in its place, to where it looks similar to the drivers side one? or are the seperators on either side of the "T" before it plugs into the upper plenum.....????
!!!WE WANT PICTURES!!!
(BTW, I use the Lightning Enterprise PCV FIX, Working PCV for the Pass Side, + Reverse Flow Check Vale for the Drivers Side, works great, nothing disconnected, minutes to hook up, and no seperators to empty) Just checked my IC @ 13K and didn't have to even touch it.
GREAT POST BRO
Good early morning reading Silver-Y2K-SVT,
I see you (like most of us) have put some serious thought to this.
BUT WHERES THE GOT DAM PICTURES ????
and ya like dark Shadow said
you said you instead of blocking off the apparantly pointless "T", you installed two oil seperators in its place. without a pic im having a hard time trying to see how this works. did you replace the "T" style with a straight tube in its place, to where it looks similar to the drivers side one? or are the seperators on either side of the "T" before it plugs into the upper plenum.....????
!!!WE WANT PICTURES!!!
(BTW, I use the Lightning Enterprise PCV FIX, Working PCV for the Pass Side, + Reverse Flow Check Vale for the Drivers Side, works great, nothing disconnected, minutes to hook up, and no seperators to empty) Just checked my IC @ 13K and didn't have to even touch it.
GREAT POST BRO