So I guess that's a no on the shower curtain rod? How about welding some heavy pipes into the bed?

And what's wrong with cutting springs and removing leafs? Any particular explanation as to why that would prove detrimental? How about keeping the stock suspension and just loading the bed to level the rake?

I wonder if you could weld some lead weights to the front to accomplish the same?

 

Rather then just throwing in some cement bags in the back of the bed you could just connect up to a cement mixer itself not only would that help level the rear but perhaps it would enhance the aerodynamics ”Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa”.

 

well.....first of all maybe $125 is more to some people than it is to you ....you ever think that some are still paying for that "30 thousand" dollar truck and maybe they can't afford or don't want to afford new springs. If one can cut part of a spring and lower their truck for nothing versus spend $125 with the same result.....why spend the extra money?? I'm into saving money if i get the same result.....so I guess i'm a 'cheap bastard' thats does things the 'hack backwards way'. You can spend your dollar how you want, but that doesn't make it right.

 

I am by no means a suspension expert, but you will never get the same results from cutting the springs.

You will lower the truck, but the ride will not be worth it in my opinion. Why not just wait until you have enough money to do it right the 1st time.

I have cut springs in the past on many cars, this was when I was in H.S. and didn't know any better. Years latter I replaced the springs with lowering springs from hotchkis, and it made a world of difference. Thinking back with all the tires and shocks I went through I should of just left the stock springs alone until I could do it right.

 

Just curious...what's your deal with adding weight to the truck to get it down to a certain height? Not only are you making your vehicle slower (which I don't think anyone bought a Lightning to be slow), but you are also putting more strain on your drivetrain and suspension. Just imagine your 500, or whatever, pounds of concrete in the bed of your truck is a 500 pound person jumping up and down. That's gotta do something aweful to your shocks. Just my .02, but the more opportunities you have to take OFF weight on a performance vehicle the better...said in a completely generalized way.

 

Although I am beginning to wonder whether you are even serious about any of this, the detriment is:
1. Removing a leaf softens the rear spring rate, which almost always negatively affects handling.
2. Cutting the coils increases the spring rate, which, in combination with #1, is f'in stupid, as you have now thrown the front/rear balance way out of whack.

Than again, we could just throw in several hundred pounds of ballast and move it around it it feels right.

 

I guess that your theory is correct, but not really relevant. Even though total travel is (usually) reduced when lowered, assuming a constant spring rate and shocks, you will still be operating in the same useful range for 99.9% of your driving.

Looking at it another way -- if at triple digit speeds while cornering you are hitting things so hard that you are concerned about suspension travel limits, you probably have more to worry about than axle movement.

The "excessive" lateral movement comment I made was in comparison to an optimum (i.e., longer) bar, not to mean that the suspension is bummed out by the lateral movement introduced by the relatively short Ruslow bar. The plain fact is that the panhard prevents excessive lateral movement, not causes it. In the process of stopping erratic 1" side-to-side movement, you introduce consistent 1/4" side-to-side movement (these numbers are just pulled out 'o my rear for illustration).

But if you are on a budget, a panhard should be way down on the list. I think of a panhard as the single-blade throttle body of the suspension/brakes -- it works, but should be one of the last things you do after the more fundamental bits are in place. Others may disagree.

 

Just cutting "height" from the installed coil springs will almost always induce handling problems which is almost inevitable. Any coil spring has a designed set of "dynamics" relative to compression and decompression rates built in to it relative to the type of steel used and it's wire thickness - and the loads it's designed to carry, etc. When you cut off a portion of the coil spring - you change all of this - including your control arm geometry and all designed handling characteristics will be changed, standard shock packages are ineffective, etc. If your "objective" is "appearance" only, and you're not going to be driving it hard and fast, then lowering your truck by cutting coils and/or removing leafs from rear springs might be ok.

 

I think we got mixed up on what I was trying to say. Your 1" to a 1/4" analogy was more of what I was trying to say. 1" is the stock ride height and the 1/4" is the lowered ride height. True there will be the same potential travel but with the bump stops you are being limited. So I was saying that with the limited travel now on a lowered rear the panhard bar has less of a chance of excessive axle movement...right?

That sums it up in a nutshell then Tim. I was just thinking with 4" shackles, the rear would need some help. So I guess you're saying it wouldn't help enough to warrant the cost?

Thanks again for your educated assistance

 

Unfortunately, we still are.

Let's say that a stock rear suspension has 6" of travel.

You now lower it 3". But you also put in lower bump stops (mine are not even 1"). So you still may have 4-5" of travel.

But for 99.9% of your driving, it doesn't matter, because you are still in the same range (not on the bump stops) that you were before -- say +/- 2" from rest.

Because of the arc of the bar pivoting on the frame mount, a panhard pulls the axle to the right as it moves up or down. That sideways movement is a fraction of the up and down movement (maybe 1/10th or less). But it increases at an increasing rate, so at the extremes of travel, it does in fact shift the axle more to the right in an unlowered truck -- because the axle can move farther up.

My point is that this is all but irrelevant, because 99.9% of the time, there is no difference in travel between stock and (properly) lowered.

And since the panhard is designed to remove the shackle/spring slop on hard cornering, if you are bottoming or topping out the suspension under panhard-hard cornering, the little bit of extra pull of the axle to the right is the least of your concerns.

 

Four inch shackles will turn your ride into sh*t. Hell, I had 2 inch shackles on my truck and went back to stock to eliminate some of the slop in the rear.

If you want to lower the rear correctly, go with either a Roush full system or the Hotchkis rear leafs. The latter will maintain your load capabilities while the Roush system will halve it.

For the fronts, I would suggest anything above 1000#s from Stan, which has his custom made by a company called Hypercoil. With Hypercoil, unlike other manufacturers like Belltech, their claimed spring rates are pretty damn close to their actual rates. I personally went with a set of 1000# coils because roads here are riddled with potholes.

Be sure to match up your endlinks and keep your swaybar [ears] parallel to the ground. I believe Mr. Skelton's site has a wealth of information on matching endlink with expected drop. A word of advice is to stay away from the Competition Engineering adjustable endlinks since they are only a tad shorter than the stockers. I found out the hard way and ended up having to drill up on my frame anyway. The SoCal adjustable endlinks are the way to go if you are squeamish about drilling.

As for the shocks, it seems the only alternative to the QA1s is the Hotchkis Bilsteins (if you're after a performance shock). I wish someone made double-adjustable shocks for our trucks! Penske makes a great set too, but they're ridiculously priced. I've heard rumors of adapting Koni's to the Lightning, but I'm still on the fence about that as they don't seem to be the Yellow's. I don't think Roush wants to disclose details on their shocks, but they could be an option as well since their spring rates are pretty similar to the Hotchkis ones (coils and leafs).

Stan's panhard is a bit short, but it works and is pretty much our only option. There were rumors of Competition Engineering coming out with one for our trucks, but no solid news as of yet.

Finally, go to Lowe's and pick up some concrete or sandbags if you want to dial in your truck's ride height a little more

 

Tim,

I understand you now. Sorry about that. I have another question though. If the panhard bar is setup where it pulls to the right, why not have another one on the opposite side that pulls to the left to balance eachother out? Or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about...

LightningGuy,

Thank you that was a better suggestion for what I was looking for, but I think the 1000# coils up front may be too stiff for my daily driven roads. That's why I thought maybe the new hotchkis with softer rate springs. I have 2" shackles on now and I don't think the handling suffered too badly in place of the new looks. Thanks for the other info though.

 

Does that make them BROWN bits of Wisdom ?

Inquiring minds wanna know ...

 

lay two pencils down horizontaly in front of you with the earasers touching.
Now with the outside ends stationary, lift tem in the center. See the gap grow.
Your frame would have to be made of rubber to allow that double panhard setup to be used .


This whole suspension thing is crazy.
People buy these trucks because they are fast and usefull as well as look the part.

The factory has to design the system to be comfortable, practical and haul or tow varied amounts of weight. And above that keep the rubber side facing down at triple digit speeds.

There is a great seires of books out by "Carroll Smith" that covers the basics very well if your serious about suspension and how it works. I am holding in my hand one of them called Prepare to win. ( I would be willing to bet Tim has the whole set)

http://www.insmkt.com/csmith.htm

The whole point of suspension tunning is to allow as much rubber contact on the ground at all times as possible. Check out the 4X4 guy's and there Rancho shock setups that allow you to change the ride firmness while driving..... (neat concept)

It is frustrating at times to see what happens to our trucks for the sake of apperance and short term trends. It seems the very thing that some people are trying to do is make there truck look similar to a fast version high speed airodynamic race car but they go about it all wrong.

Allmost all performance enhancing suspensions will sacrifice ride comfort and when using urethane components you get that extra sqeak as a bonus.

 

There is such a device -- do a Google search on "watts link" or "watts linkage". The key thing on a Watts link that we don't have is the swiveling connection to the differential that will allow both rods to move at the same time.