Originally Posted by Rob_02Lightning

Great feedback and info all ,
AND THANKS FOR KEEPING THIS CIVIL EVERYONE

Like I said, I am not saying this is the end of the Mag,
but I am out of options right now. I've asked Sal many many times
if he would install cams and or springs, and he has told me each and
every time it's a real pita job and he really doesn't want to do it.
(I can understand and respect that)

So I'm kind of out of options and need to do SOMETHING ?
YES I SCREWED UP by NOT doing the heads and cams @$@&($%@$

I know I dont have any magical Mods that should bring me crazy HP,
but since I had @425 HP to start with, when we build the bottom end
all I wanted was an additional 50 HP or so (off n20) so we really didn't
think the Heads and cams were needed.
I DID BELIEVE going from a 4lb lower to a 8, adding a CL Upper, The Mag S/C,
Mag Idler Bracket, Long Tube Headers, Hi Flo Cats, Cat Back, Injectors
(50 lbr's) the 255 Pumps, Maf Extender, new CIA System, and SCT tuning
would give me that.
It's very hard to swallow that all that only gave me 15-20 HP :o
Just freshening up the motor, cleaning up the heads, milling and boring, Having Sal Dyno Tune using SCT should have done that ALONE

26 Dyno's is waaaaaaaaaaaay more than I EVERY wanted my truck to make,
and believe me I HAVE ALL THAT BOOST. It goes to 18 IMMEDIATELY apon stapping the pedal, and then quickly climbs to 22. Sal has had me sit in the truck on many a Dyno pass and watch the guage, and I see it all day on the street. Thats what makes this so hard to understand, I truly have massive low end TQ and Tire Ripping Power, all that Boost, and yet crappy HP : o (
And when I tried going from a 2.7 upper to the 3.0 Mag Upper, I lost A TON of power and immediately went back to the 2.7.

But my other issue is all that boost comes with a price
Even with a very safe AF I have already hurt spark plugs, and even melted the pins out of two inserts and had then unscrew with the spark plugs during a routine plug change &@$^%@*&$%@*$%@$
My Air Temps may be great (and they are) but there is obviously massive Cylinder Pressure and or Cylinder Temp's going on as a result of all that boost.
I'm going to toast a frigging new motor here trying to squeeze a measly 450 HP out of it.....

Mike's #'s are amazing (I would love to have them), and he's using stock heads. I truly believe the Cams and Springs made the diff, and as Charles has proved, I even believe the springs alone would make quite a diff.
But thats over my head to do alone, and Sal doesn't really want to, and if you go that far, why not spend a few more hours and do the Cams,
(prob a good 3K job and right now I just cant)
Of course for the same 3K you could also throw a KB on it, and DEF hit 480-500 HP on stock heads and cams, but I have seen so many give trouble than I dont know if I'd consider that. (I know it's King of the S/C, but there are a lot of failures, NO ONE can deny that)

But mike also has something I WANT, A reg Tune, and A Race Tune,
WE CAN NOT BUILD US A RACE TUNE ???
Basically we have NO TUNING CAPABILITY AT ALL
It puts down the same #'s from 14-16 degrees, and consistantly loses
HP every degree of timing you add over that, WTF RIGHT ???
(and if you go below 14 you lose also)
A/F will of course change the power, but how much over 12 does anyone really want to go ??? Mike I'd love to see the A/F on those Dyno's, Do you know what your timing and A/F was ?

THIS TEST is a must FOR ME, I have got to know if less Boost, and maybe more timing cant give me the same or simular results at a much safer Cylinder Pressure and or Temp.

Charles your a great guy, a good friend, and the Mag has a def place in the L world, I am not giving up on it, and people like Gator having 580 all motor prove the SC can kick *** with the right Mods.

When I talk to Sal this week, I'll get a price on Cams and Springs, beg him some more, and consider going further into CC hell if I am grrnty'd more power with that.......

In the mean time the truck is running amazing, I was out with it all weekend,
although I have a lot less boost, 17 is plenty, and it feels REAL GOOD.
Lets see what HP it's capable of ???

Originally Posted by Blown347Hatch

Rob, you really need to try the springs. It's cheap enough, and perhaps your original springs are a little more fatigued than some others with same parts running more HP. It has to be something mechanical and solveable. If it is the springs (bad), they will just simply leak your HP right out your exhaust. If I were in your situation, at this point I would try them. Plus, if/when you go with cams and you will have springs out of the way.

Originally Posted by St Louis Lightning

There is one tuner out there that always gets the best results. No matter the setup, the numbers are always higher than everyone elses. They can take a part like a phenolic spacer and show 10+ hp gains. Now some would say that they have a special gift for tuning our vehicles that no one else can duplicate. And some would say that they put other bolt-ons on the vehicles to exagerate the gains. Others would suggest their dyno just plain reads high.

Bottom line is what has always been true is still true - the real test is at the track where everyone is on the same playing field.

-Mark

Originally Posted by Magnum Powers

Rob,
With these new valve spring tools I think changing the valve springs will only be about a 3 hour job plus $100 for 8 aftermarket springs, thats about a 1/10 the cost of doing the cams.

Originally Posted by 8UR LS1

I made 463/530 on the MP/JDM street tune with stock block and heads w/ 4# lower and 17-18#'s boost