Just to simplify Rob's mess of information ....

The ported Eaton made about 20-25ft-lbs and about 10-15 hp more in the power range under 4400 rpm.

At 4500, the Magnum starts to gain in power and torque, ending up with about a 25hp/tq higher number at 5400 rpms.

In my opinion, the Eaton would pull the truck harder in 1st and second, but the Magnum would have a stronger 3rd gear pull. I think the two power curves would result in just about the same ETs.

The pulley sizes were the same for both blowers. The Magnum was making about 21, and the ported Eaton was making about 18-19. The A/F for both tests was so identical, I had to change the graph line colors just to barely see the lines over each other.

Other data of use... The IAT2s for the Ported Eaton were about 125 through most of the pull and 130 at the very upper rpms.

Another thing I don't think Rob mentioned, is that we disconnected that freakin piece of crap Plasma Booster (god I hate those things). Rob has been having issues burning plugs, and with high 11s A/F and 16 degrees timing we were both baffled on that one. We also have always had problems getting a good tach signal for the dyno off his truck. My theory is that the Plasma Booster was firing the spark out of time, and causing both the plug and tach issues, and maybe even the won't take timing issue. We disconnected it and make a back up pull. No change in hp or A/F, and this time the tach signal was perfect. Then we tried adding timing, and instead of dropping 20 hp like last time, it picked up a few. Did I mention I hate these things?

Anyway, there the data. It's always nice to do some legit real testing.

 

I think one thing to note here is that the MP would be producing more boost than the Eaton at a given RPM range, especialy on the top end. Were the valves to be unable to retain seal, I speculate the MP's higer boost curve would contaminate the operating conditions; the power output would be affected whereas the lower-boost Eaton would not be able to via virtue of lower boost. I also felt that the Plasma Booster was the detrement to the timing curve. I think that Rob should not have violated the old biblical principal "one does not put new wine into old wine caskets", or, the older, battle-damaged heads should not have been recycled on the rebuilt block. That's half-a$$ed, and spoils the efforts of rebuilding the lower end for the purpose of producing a higher performance capable engine.

If anything, this leads me to believe that anybody wanting to rebuild the engine needs to be financialy prepared and commited to buy Stage (x) ported/cammed performance heads in addition to the lower end, and while your at it, get the long-tube headers/midpipes/AFR WB in place. It's going to cost a lot of coin, but it just makes better sense in the long run, if your goals are to push the performance evelope. Otherwise, you're going to be buying it later, and repeating work and increasing downtime.

 

We tested the Magnum with the Plasma booster on and off and resulted the same power readings and same issues with timing. At this point, the timing issue could have been either the PB or the Magnum. Since we tested the Magnum with the PB on and off and saw no change, it points to the blower, for whatever reason. I think the PB got progressively worse as time went on.

As for Robs heads, there was nothing wrong with what we did. They were low mile heads that got fresehened up. Nothing bad about them. They were never "damaged" in any way, other than needing a few exhaust guides. The springs were not changed when they were off, because we never had any "spring" issues with any other vehicle before, and therefore it the idea never crossed our minds.

 

Thanks for the clarification

Ugh. I hope this is an isolated case, otherwise this doesn't bode well for the future of tuning with the MP on these trucks. Sal, what's your thoughts on the MP vs. the ported Eaton now?

 

Nice info. The shift in power curve is exactly what my maggy did. The truck did not pull as hard down low, just as Sal explained....but in third gear.....WATCH OUT!!!!!! It now feels more like an LS1 vehicle. I haven't gone to a 1/4 mile track (fri ggin rain!) but mile 1/8th mile tells the same story. I only dropped a few hundreths off my best (but it was hot as blazes) but picked up amlost 3MPH!!! In just the 1/8th!!! I can't wait to get this bad boy to a full 1/4 track. Oh, and as for the guys that say its all JDM BS...Check out my dyno sheet on lightningrodder dot com. 460hp, 4lb lower, 2.7 upper, 16 total lbs of boost, 12 degrees timing. At that point I ran out of fuel pump, so I couldn't go higher. New pumps coming soon.

 

Great info Ronbo and Sal. The guys a MP probably aren't going to care for this too much, but that's the way it goes. We need to know the TRUE value (or lack of) for every mod we have available. Especially on one that costs what these things do.

 

yep and not only that but the air seemed like crap with the eaton = hot and humid i know what direction im heading thanx rob

 

Well, as a MP owner I must say I am surprised at these results. It seems that the new generation of ports have come a long way.
When my ported Eaton had a case warping issue I went to the MP. I dont regret it, but I now see I have little to no advantage over the port.
Keeping an eye on how this turns out for others.
Jim

 

Ya what Sal Said, (isn't that what I said too Sal )

We have had quite an issue of constantly burning plugs, and also losing the tach signal, and even losing signal to a coil on the last round of Dyno's.
We NOW know the Plasma Booster is the cause of the coil signal interuption,
and the Tach Signal droping out, God I pray it plays a part in the cause of the burnt plugs too???

Personally I've always felt the toasted plugs were the cost of the high boost #'s the Mag was putting out, @23 lbs to be exact. Which is another major reason I wanted to try the Eaton, I truly expected it to put down equal numbers with less Boost, it actually did better than that. How some of my Brothers are putting down equal #'s with only 4lb pulleys still remain a mystery to me. When I went from the 2.7 Mag upper to the 3.0 I lost major power, everything points at HAVING TO spin it hard and fast, yet for me that may equal constant burnt plugs, (maybe, jury's still out) ???

AS STATED the Plasma Booster had "NO EFFECT" on the power output shown on the Dyno. AMOF "we have" disconnected it before on the Dyno and last time it had no affect on the Power either, actually we gained a few ponys. [i]Sal if my memory serves me correct, the last time we disconnected it on the Dyno (with the Mag on), we did try the higher timing but again lost power ???

Am I happy about the results, Yes and No
Of course I rather run the Mag, I love the sound, the looks, the boost, everything about it. HOWEVER the Eaton clearly proved to have more power from idle all the way up to dam near shift point. I got my tunability back, I got a much stronger N20 tune, and I ran it up to 130 MPH yesterday on the parkway and the SOB was pulling like a raped ape the entire way.
To boot I did it all on a hotter, more humid day and night.

The last thing I'd like to clear up is this.
It's easy to say, we should have, could have, would have,
and why didn't we. Remember our Goals FROM DAY ONE were simply 480-500 off spray, there truly was no reason we should not have been able to do that on stock heads, cams and springs. We are still short of that goal of course, but at least now we have some tuning capabilitiy back, and with the additon of an electric fan, maybe a little more aggresive tune, a few tricks here and there, I think we can still save grace and I can still chase the dream.

 

I agree that especially for the lower shift point nitrous tune the Wasp appears to be the ticket.
On my MP setup I am going in a different direction(reinforced based on info in this thread). I will use a Yank 3000 stall converter as well as ported heads/cams/solid lifters and raise shift points. I will let all know results in the Fall.
If the experiment fails, I do have my warped case that Stieg says can be cleaned up.
Jim

 

Ah Lunch time

I agree Top Gun, and feel "there is" a place for the Mag, what bothers me more than anything though is the range of diff results we are seeing ???
Charles truly is a great guy, he stands behind his products 100%, he's been nothing but great to me, I consider him a Friend and L Brother, and this was one very hard decision to make, especially since he has been working day and night trying to find the perfect set up for us mag owners.

After 26 or 27 Mag Dyno's, all it took with the Eaton was 1 to see the AF, one to adjust it, one to put down the #, and one we played around a little with more timing, WOO HOO I LOVE TIMING
The results dont lie, and anyway you look at it, it seems this setup is better for me right now. Plus on a simular temp and humidity night, there is no doubt in my mind the Eaton will put down even more. There is also no doubt we still have room to adjust, something we did not have before.....

I DO NOT want to hurt Mag business,
I do not want Charles upset with me,
I do not want to look ungrateful
I stood behind the Mag 100%, I fought people who talked negative about it,
I argued with people showing bad or no results, but after seeing mine, I HAD TO try the Ported Eaton (for both me and the community). Now that I see the results, (got the tunning back, timing back, equal or better #'s)
and all on less boost and worse conditions, I'm simply Dazzed and Confused...

 

That about sums it up.
Rob,
If the product doesn't perform the way you anticipated then it didn't work. Plain and simple. I know Charles has helped you and spent a lot of money on a product, but obviously it's not doing what you anticipated.

Thanks for the info!

Rob, just throw a Turbo on there and call it a day.

 

Sal and Rob, thanks for the information. Over the past year, i've learned so much about these trucks. Mainly from you guys

 

I have posted on some other threads my finding regarding the intake valve springs. For those who may have not seen them I will give a recap. I took a stock set of heads with 54,000 miles and pressurized the intake runner with air pressure. I increased the pressure and when it got to 20 psi the intake valve opened! This happened when the head as setting on the engine and not turning. Rob is running 23 psi that is well above the pressure required to open the valves by boost pressure alone. We cannot expect the engine to develop proper power with the valves are being blown around in the wind instead of being timed by the cam.

I have designed some tools that will enable us to upgrade the valve springs to aftermarket ones with the heads and engine still in the truck. These tools will make the job easy instead of a pain. The tools are being manufactured now and as soon as I get them I will make them available.

Charles

 

I always come back to what is the price versus the peformance of a mod. I think we all agree that a MP > Stock Eaton. For $1650, you can probably gain 40-60 HP with the right pulleys.

MP vs Ported Eaton.. Mixed results. From 0-35HP gain. Porting costs $450, so the MP is $1200 more for 0-35HP gain.

Stock Eaton + Nitrous Kit. Costs $500-1400 depending on complexity of kit. Gains - 75HP+

Many people are afraid of nitrous, but I really think it is that inbetween choice for people not ready for a KB/Whipple upgrade.

-Mark