An Open Thank You to Jim and Charles
#33
11-08-2005 | 09:37 PM
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From: O'Fallon, MO
Originally Posted by Krix330cic(NJ)
Thought NOS was supposed to be, "cheap horsepower".... $1500 for a race tested brand kit?? 
One two many clams for me to spend on some extra street fun.. Jim Jr., ill be in touch.
One two many clams for me to spend on some extra street fun.. Jim Jr., ill be in touch.
If you wanted to do NX + Progressive (using NX's $700+ Maximiser 2), you'll be in the same ballpark.
-Mark
#34
11-09-2005 | 07:16 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Quote;
a few things: 1) If all of the trucks with problems weren't installed correctly and therefore made considerably less power than was advertised, how come you never hear about NX kits underproducing? Is it just a coincidence that people can't install racetested kits correctly but they can install NX ones without a single problem?
End of quote
My systems and products are "designed" for one purpose - to make quicker ET's.
When I had this discussion with Sal, the outcome was that he thought I should make some changes to the supply pipe and injector to (in his own words) "make them more idiot proof" to ensure they were fitted correctly to avoid the problems that were being experienced.
He felt that American kits were idiot proof.
The problem with making a system idiot proof (please keep in mind these are not my words), is that you have to compromise on performance.
The result is simple, you either fit and tune my systems as I instruct them to be and get quicker ETs - or you throw on a NX kit that any idiot can do and accept slower ETs.
Since this game is about quick ETs, I'd have thought it would make more sense to follow my instructions.
There is nothing about my products or my system that is like any other system that you guys are used to. I don't think it's down to being "idiot proof", I think it's just down to needing to apply a new way of working and a new understanding of a better way of doing things.
It's impossible for my products to perform better than NX & NOS on 1,000s of other vehicles and fail to do so on a hand full of L's - especially when a larger number of L's are also running quicker using my systems.
This final statement applies to ALL products;
A tuning product will only perform as well as it has been fitted and tuned to do!!!
If one of you guys fitted a performance cam shaft which claimed to make 25 hp but you had set the timing wrong and it only made 10 hp, it's not the cams fault. Likewise if that same cam was fitted correctly but the ignition timing and fuelling were not optimised, it may only make 20 hp but once again it's not the cams fault. Furthermore if the cam was fitted and tuned correctly but you'd fitted a restrictive exhaust system to the truck which prevented the cam from making the full 25 hp, it's not the cams fault.
Coincidence - maybe - a common lack of appreciation of the finer details of a correct install and tune - much more likely!!!
Still waiting for all these unhappy customers to contact me direct.
By the way if you guys are tired of this subject, just think how Denny and I feel when we know it's not a product fault.
Regards
Trev
a few things: 1) If all of the trucks with problems weren't installed correctly and therefore made considerably less power than was advertised, how come you never hear about NX kits underproducing? Is it just a coincidence that people can't install racetested kits correctly but they can install NX ones without a single problem?
End of quote
My systems and products are "designed" for one purpose - to make quicker ET's.
When I had this discussion with Sal, the outcome was that he thought I should make some changes to the supply pipe and injector to (in his own words) "make them more idiot proof" to ensure they were fitted correctly to avoid the problems that were being experienced.
He felt that American kits were idiot proof.
The problem with making a system idiot proof (please keep in mind these are not my words), is that you have to compromise on performance.
The result is simple, you either fit and tune my systems as I instruct them to be and get quicker ETs - or you throw on a NX kit that any idiot can do and accept slower ETs.
Since this game is about quick ETs, I'd have thought it would make more sense to follow my instructions.
There is nothing about my products or my system that is like any other system that you guys are used to. I don't think it's down to being "idiot proof", I think it's just down to needing to apply a new way of working and a new understanding of a better way of doing things.
It's impossible for my products to perform better than NX & NOS on 1,000s of other vehicles and fail to do so on a hand full of L's - especially when a larger number of L's are also running quicker using my systems.
This final statement applies to ALL products;
A tuning product will only perform as well as it has been fitted and tuned to do!!!
If one of you guys fitted a performance cam shaft which claimed to make 25 hp but you had set the timing wrong and it only made 10 hp, it's not the cams fault. Likewise if that same cam was fitted correctly but the ignition timing and fuelling were not optimised, it may only make 20 hp but once again it's not the cams fault. Furthermore if the cam was fitted and tuned correctly but you'd fitted a restrictive exhaust system to the truck which prevented the cam from making the full 25 hp, it's not the cams fault.
Coincidence - maybe - a common lack of appreciation of the finer details of a correct install and tune - much more likely!!!
Still waiting for all these unhappy customers to contact me direct.
By the way if you guys are tired of this subject, just think how Denny and I feel when we know it's not a product fault.
Regards
Trev
#35
11-09-2005 | 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rmfreeze
You're last sentence sums it up. I spent several hours working to get more than 75hp out of the 150hp kit (just like others have mentioned). I don't WANT to spend hours and hours investigating why the kit doesn't do more. Why should I? I guess because I spent $1500 on it is probably a good reason but after you mess with something so many times and then another person (more experienced tuner/shop) spends time messing with it (on my dime) you get a BAD taste in your mouth for it. If it works fine, do you want to buy it back? 
I am sure you won't - used parts and all.
And as far as the same 3 truck comment goes: there were 2 others at LF besides me with problems. That's 3. Then there's another at a local tuner, Gator, and Mark (also mentioned in this thread). That's 6. At one time it seemed like it was higher HP or perhaps high boost trucks that experienced the low HP issue.
Sorry to crap in your thread Gator. Congrat's on the times!
I am sure you won't - used parts and all.And as far as the same 3 truck comment goes: there were 2 others at LF besides me with problems. That's 3. Then there's another at a local tuner, Gator, and Mark (also mentioned in this thread). That's 6. At one time it seemed like it was higher HP or perhaps high boost trucks that experienced the low HP issue.
Sorry to crap in your thread Gator. Congrat's on the times!
More experienced shop looked at the kit also? I know the shop as they called me several times because they have no experience with our kit and neeeded a lot of questions answered. This is not a fault on their end as our kit is all new to what they are used to and I am glad they did call for questions, but don't say you had some experienced shop try their best and not able to get good results either when the shop admitted they have no idea what to really do as it's all foreign to them. Another L went to the same shop and seems to be happy with his results as far as the kit goes.
There was only 1 person at L fest that I know of and didn't have major problems. He just did not get optimal results but now his tunes are being changed as some people have an open mind that the old generic ways on other kits don't apply to our kits as Trev mentoned. Why don't you bring up the people with other nitrous kits that wouldn't work period at LR and one guy switched over to ours because of it and now has a new PB!
There are always 2 sides of the story but I know I don't lie or smooth things over when it comes to my business as I have to much integrity and concious to rip people off.
You say it seems odd that there are these people with problems. I say it's odd that we have 5 times as many L's with great results using the exact same spec of components.
Getting back to Gator as this is his thread. Gator bought the kit as it was HIGHLY recommended and people are getting great results. Instead of saying the kit is no good I would be asking my tuner "why is my truck having all these problems with the kit when I bought it because it is so good on other trucks".
#36
11-09-2005 | 08:49 AM
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: AR
Originally Posted by racetested
Again, share all the details.
Originally Posted by racetested
More experienced shop looked at the kit also? I know the shop as they called me several times because they have no experience with our kit and neeeded a lot of questions answered. This is not a fault on their end as our kit is all new to what they are used to and I am glad they did call for questions, but don't say you had some experienced shop try their best and not able to get good results either when the shop admitted they have no idea what to really do as it's all foreign to them. Another L went to the same shop and seems to be happy with his results as far as the kit goes.
Originally Posted by racetested
There was only 1 person at L fest that I know of and didn't have major problems. He just did not get optimal results but now his tunes are being changed as some people have an open mind that the old generic ways on other kits don't apply to our kits as Trev mentoned. Why don't you bring up the people with other nitrous kits that wouldn't work period at LR and one guy switched over to ours because of it and now has a new PB!
I don't know why the other guys don't post about the lackluster performance. Perhaps they don't like confrontation.
Ok. Whatever. Surely there's something wrong with the INSTALL or TUNE for higher horsepower trucks to need the 300jet to make 150hp so when someone figures it out perhaps you'll share it with the rest of us. Mmkay? In the meantime, I am done with it. I won't pop up and post in another thread about this kit unless it's someone I know and I want to save them some headache. LOL.
Originally Posted by racetested
There are always 2 sides of the story but I know I don't lie or smooth things over when it comes to my business as I have to much integrity and concious to rip people off.
Originally Posted by racetested
You say it seems odd that there are these people with problems. I say it's odd that we have 5 times as many L's with great results using the exact same spec of components.
To Gator and others: Sorry for downgrading this thread with my complaint about this kit. I'm done with it. Denny can get the last word. I bet I can sum it up: I'm alone in my problem or at the most in the extreme minority and if there is a problem it's due to the foreign nature of the kit lending to a general inexperience with it which could cause a faulty install or perhaps the trucks electrical system is in error with the kit design and that for optimal results I should continue to tweak the kit until the desired results are acheived on a track.
#37
11-09-2005 | 09:11 AM
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From: S. JERSEY
Originally Posted by St Louis Lightning
$1500 for a Progressive Nitrous kit. Everyone needs to remember that. If you want to do a fixed hit setup it is closer to $800..
If you wanted to do NX + Progressive (using NX's $700+ Maximiser 2), you'll be in the same ballpark.
-Mark
If you wanted to do NX + Progressive (using NX's $700+ Maximiser 2), you'll be in the same ballpark.
-Mark
#38
11-09-2005 | 09:46 AM
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From: O'Fallon, MO
Originally Posted by Krix330cic(NJ)
Exactly.. thats why I dont NEED a $1500 progressive system for the street...
I'm not cheerleading here. I'm still one of those guys that did not yet get results with Denny's kit, but I don't like to see misinformation either.
-Mark
#39
11-09-2005 | 10:01 AM
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Joined: Apr 2001
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From: O'Fallon, MO
Originally Posted by Noswizard
Still waiting for all these unhappy customers to contact me direct.
By the way if you guys are tired of this subject, just think how Denny and I feel when we know it's not a product fault.
For my situation, certain things need to be taken care of before contacting you would be worth while. First, Denny is working up a new nitrous plate. I know you are proud of your injector, but if it was 1" longer it sure would be easier to use. Your competitors seem to see value in longer nozzles... I'm not talking about the design of how it mixes the streams, just in the length.
Like Gator, I lost the content of my bottle with the leaky valve( 2 15lb fills wasted). These are real problems, but contacting you will not fix them. Denny has been very responsive and we are working both problems out. Then, along with a bottle heater, I'll dyno again. Even if I buy into everything you are saying about E/T's, the 44hp/54tq gain I initial got on a "100 shot" is unacceptable. You talk about torque and acceleration being the most important - well I didn't see the torque.
Bottom line - going to fix what is wrong and give you another chance. I'm going to post here honestly either way when I'm done.
-Mark
#40
11-09-2005 | 10:36 AM
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i am one of the trucks that are recieving less then optimun results.
i have no need to contact trev, denny has contacted me.
rt coustemer service is second to none.
my problem is on start line, i hit the gas peddal and she just falls on its face.
it takes a couple seconds to regain power
by this time the run is done.
denny has told me i might need to change jet size, and he told me away to test the jet sizing.
the test is performed with the truck parked, you rev your motor to 1/3 of your rpm's and then you hit the nos switch. if you are using the proper jet sizing then you should hit your redline.
when denny explained this to me it made sense. but if my truck is bogging of the line because of a lean condition i might grenade it. hmmm seems like a risky propisition to me.
no flame intended
maybe there is a difrent way to check sizing of the jets?
rick
i have no need to contact trev, denny has contacted me.
rt coustemer service is second to none.
my problem is on start line, i hit the gas peddal and she just falls on its face.
it takes a couple seconds to regain power
by this time the run is done.denny has told me i might need to change jet size, and he told me away to test the jet sizing.
the test is performed with the truck parked, you rev your motor to 1/3 of your rpm's and then you hit the nos switch. if you are using the proper jet sizing then you should hit your redline.
when denny explained this to me it made sense. but if my truck is bogging of the line because of a lean condition i might grenade it. hmmm seems like a risky propisition to me.
no flame intended
maybe there is a difrent way to check sizing of the jets?
rick
#41
11-09-2005 | 03:26 PM
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#42
11-09-2005 | 08:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 27
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Mark & Rick,
I'm pleased to hear Denny is providing you good support as I knew he would. My posts are not aimed at those guys who have declared their position but at those who "claim" to know of others who are unhappy, because Denny is unaware of who this growing number of unhappy customers consist of.
Regards
Trev
I'm pleased to hear Denny is providing you good support as I knew he would. My posts are not aimed at those guys who have declared their position but at those who "claim" to know of others who are unhappy, because Denny is unaware of who this growing number of unhappy customers consist of.
Originally Posted by St Louis Lightning
Why should I or other people working this through Denny contact you directly? You are attempting over and over to prove there are no problems because people won't contact YOU.
Reply; I'm not attempting to prove there are no problems, I'm trying to prove the real extent of the problems and the real causes, rather than let it get blown out of proportion as some people seem to want it to be. Moreover I'm trying to emphasise the extent of my support and offer my 25 years of experience to resolve any issues for you guys.
QUOTE; For my situation, certain things need to be taken care of before contacting you would be worth while.
Reply; Yes I'm aware of that (which is another reason why my posts were not aimed at you).
QUOTE; First, Denny is working up a new nitrous plate. I know you are proud of your injector, but if it was 1" longer it sure would be easier to use. Your competitors seem to see value in longer nozzles... I'm not talking about the design of how it mixes the streams, just in the length.
Reply; Until now there has been no need for a longer nozzle and it's not something that can change immediately (nor should it need to have been if the plate company had done their job right to Denny's spec). Furthermore the longer the nozzle the lower the flow, however if a correctly machined plate doesn't solve the problem, I will have some "special" nozzles made ASAP and shipped over to you FOC.
QUOTE; Like Gator, I lost the content of my bottle with the leaky valve( 2 15lb fills wasted). These are real problems, but contacting you will not fix them.
Reply; Very true as these problems were due to factors outside my control and denny has taken full responsibillity for them.
QUOTE; Denny has been very responsive and we are working both problems out. Then, along with a bottle heater, I'll dyno again. Even if I buy into everything you are saying about E/T's, the 44hp/54tq gain I initial got on a "100 shot" is unacceptable. You talk about torque and acceleration being the most important - well I didn't see the torque.
Reply; Agreed and in your case I'd be STUNNED if that isn't just due to the lack of protrusion of the nozzle through the plate. I'm confident you will see acceptable results on the dyno and if you follow my advice on tuning the system for torque, you will see even better results on the track.
QUOTE; Bottom line - going to fix what is wrong and give you another chance. I'm going to post here honestly either way when I'm done.
Reply; Good man!! That's very fair and we wouldn't ask for anything else.
-Mark
Reply; I'm not attempting to prove there are no problems, I'm trying to prove the real extent of the problems and the real causes, rather than let it get blown out of proportion as some people seem to want it to be. Moreover I'm trying to emphasise the extent of my support and offer my 25 years of experience to resolve any issues for you guys.
QUOTE; For my situation, certain things need to be taken care of before contacting you would be worth while.
Reply; Yes I'm aware of that (which is another reason why my posts were not aimed at you).
QUOTE; First, Denny is working up a new nitrous plate. I know you are proud of your injector, but if it was 1" longer it sure would be easier to use. Your competitors seem to see value in longer nozzles... I'm not talking about the design of how it mixes the streams, just in the length.
Reply; Until now there has been no need for a longer nozzle and it's not something that can change immediately (nor should it need to have been if the plate company had done their job right to Denny's spec). Furthermore the longer the nozzle the lower the flow, however if a correctly machined plate doesn't solve the problem, I will have some "special" nozzles made ASAP and shipped over to you FOC.
QUOTE; Like Gator, I lost the content of my bottle with the leaky valve( 2 15lb fills wasted). These are real problems, but contacting you will not fix them.
Reply; Very true as these problems were due to factors outside my control and denny has taken full responsibillity for them.
QUOTE; Denny has been very responsive and we are working both problems out. Then, along with a bottle heater, I'll dyno again. Even if I buy into everything you are saying about E/T's, the 44hp/54tq gain I initial got on a "100 shot" is unacceptable. You talk about torque and acceleration being the most important - well I didn't see the torque.
Reply; Agreed and in your case I'd be STUNNED if that isn't just due to the lack of protrusion of the nozzle through the plate. I'm confident you will see acceptable results on the dyno and if you follow my advice on tuning the system for torque, you will see even better results on the track.
QUOTE; Bottom line - going to fix what is wrong and give you another chance. I'm going to post here honestly either way when I'm done.
Reply; Good man!! That's very fair and we wouldn't ask for anything else.
-Mark
Trev
#43
11-10-2005 | 08:05 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 440
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Originally Posted by lightninquick
i am one of the trucks that are recieving less then optimun results.
i have no need to contact trev, denny has contacted me.
rt coustemer service is second to none.
my problem is on start line, i hit the gas peddal and she just falls on its face.
it takes a couple seconds to regain power by this time the run is done.
denny has told me i might need to change jet size, and he told me away to test the jet sizing.
the test is performed with the truck parked, you rev your motor to 1/3 of your rpm's and then you hit the nos switch. if you are using the proper jet sizing then you should hit your redline.
when denny explained this to me it made sense. but if my truck is bogging of the line because of a lean condition i might grenade it. hmmm seems like a risky propisition to me.
no flame intended
maybe there is a difrent way to check sizing of the jets?
rick
i have no need to contact trev, denny has contacted me.
rt coustemer service is second to none.
my problem is on start line, i hit the gas peddal and she just falls on its face.
it takes a couple seconds to regain power
by this time the run is done.denny has told me i might need to change jet size, and he told me away to test the jet sizing.
the test is performed with the truck parked, you rev your motor to 1/3 of your rpm's and then you hit the nos switch. if you are using the proper jet sizing then you should hit your redline.
when denny explained this to me it made sense. but if my truck is bogging of the line because of a lean condition i might grenade it. hmmm seems like a risky propisition to me.
no flame intended
maybe there is a difrent way to check sizing of the jets?
rick
This post would be a good read for you. A fellow American who swapped over from years of competitors kits use and even talks about the static test in mention that you have concerns about. I figure independent comments hold more water sometimes as they have nothing to gain or lose.
http://www.noswizard.com/bboard/viewtopic.php?t=1188
#44
11-10-2005 | 04:16 PM
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 12,632
Likes: 1
From: Stinkin Joisey
I was afraid that me even mentioning the problems I been having with the nitrous kit, would led to this. That is why nobody has heard a peep out of me concerning this kit, until now.
Let me say this once more..........
Denny has been very helpful and his customer service is second to none!
The Racetested kit has worked well on stock and lightly modified Lightning. There just seems to be a problem when the boost is turned up and your making 550/600 rwhp and shooting the juice with the RT kit.
My problem is Iam frustrated with the on going problems. I do have a new personal best in the 1/8 with the RT system, but I have never used nitrous before.
Iam going with that idiot proof NX system (not my words.....mind you).
I'll go with a 150 shot and then look at the 1/8 mile numbers for a comparision. But what I've read posted here, I'll be slower with the NX system
Let me say this once more..........
Denny has been very helpful and his customer service is second to none!
The Racetested kit has worked well on stock and lightly modified Lightning. There just seems to be a problem when the boost is turned up and your making 550/600 rwhp and shooting the juice with the RT kit.
My problem is Iam frustrated with the on going problems. I do have a new personal best in the 1/8 with the RT system, but I have never used nitrous before.
Iam going with that idiot proof NX system (not my words.....mind you).
I'll go with a 150 shot and then look at the 1/8 mile numbers for a comparision. But what I've read posted here, I'll be slower with the NX system
#45
11-11-2005 | 07:33 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Fast Gator,
It's my guess that you will be quicker on the NX kit because the failures you have experienced are due to incorrect fitting of my system (otherwise you would not have had problems with the pipe) and if you have one of Denny's plates then the system couldn't possibly make the best numbers because the plates didn't allow the nozzle to protrude far enough.
The only fair comparrison would be if my system was fitted correctly and then compared with the NX results.
If however the NX kit doesn't produce a quicker 1/8 mile it will show you how bad they are, because if they can't beat my system when mine has been fitted badly then think how much the difference would be when all things were equal.
My personal opinion is that you are taking a longer harder road to a worse result, when ALL you needed to do was change to braided supply pipe and if you have Dennys plate - change that. This solution is FAR quicker and simpler plus there will be no extra cost on parts.
Like I said in a previous post NX wanted to buy and sell my Pulsoids because they tested them and found they were vastly superior to the ones they sell, so it doesn't make sense to remove the best solenoids in the world and replace them with inferior items.
Also like I posted earlier we have a growing number of customers who have logged results that prove you get quicker times using less gas when using my system, so I strongly advise you to think again before giving up on it.
Best wishes
Regards
Trev Thw WIZARD of NOS
It's my guess that you will be quicker on the NX kit because the failures you have experienced are due to incorrect fitting of my system (otherwise you would not have had problems with the pipe) and if you have one of Denny's plates then the system couldn't possibly make the best numbers because the plates didn't allow the nozzle to protrude far enough.
The only fair comparrison would be if my system was fitted correctly and then compared with the NX results.
If however the NX kit doesn't produce a quicker 1/8 mile it will show you how bad they are, because if they can't beat my system when mine has been fitted badly then think how much the difference would be when all things were equal.
My personal opinion is that you are taking a longer harder road to a worse result, when ALL you needed to do was change to braided supply pipe and if you have Dennys plate - change that. This solution is FAR quicker and simpler plus there will be no extra cost on parts.
Like I said in a previous post NX wanted to buy and sell my Pulsoids because they tested them and found they were vastly superior to the ones they sell, so it doesn't make sense to remove the best solenoids in the world and replace them with inferior items.
Also like I posted earlier we have a growing number of customers who have logged results that prove you get quicker times using less gas when using my system, so I strongly advise you to think again before giving up on it.
Best wishes
Regards
Trev Thw WIZARD of NOS