Expedition to Lightning Engine Conversion
#1
01-08-2000 | 05:30 AM
Thread Starter
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Expedition to Lightning Engine Conversion
This is my first post to the forum…sorry for the length!
I'm currently studying the possibility of swapping my 97 Expedition EB 5.4 4WD’s engine and tranny with one from the 99 Lightning. What I have gathered so far (mostly from posts in this bb) is that I would be needing the Lightning stock computer, instrument cluster, and the COP ignition to be able to do the transplant. I already have the lightning wheels and the front bumper and grille assembly. Brembo brakes for the Expedition are on order.
My questions are:
What other parts are needed to be able to successfully execute this transplant?
For those who already have purchased the lightning crate engine, what parts still need to be purchased (i.e. pulleys? Belts? Airbox?) Part numbers would be very much appreciated!
I understand that the transmission is the 4R100…is this exactly the same as the one in the diesels? Do they have the same part number?
Does anybody have the part numbers and pricing info on the COP ignition, instrument cluster and the computer module?
Mike Troyer mentioned that I might be needing a custom driveshaft. Can anyone ascertain this? I checked and it seems that the wheelbase of both the Lightning and the Expedition are the same at 119.8 inches.
Lastly, what suspension mods to the stock Expedition, other than the wider, lower profile tires, would I be need to keep the truck from tipping over at (increased) speed? I don’t want to lower the truck more than necessary.
Thanks for any info you guys might have and care to post. Kudos to all for the quality of this bb and for being such a great source of info!
I can also be reached by email at rainmaker@attglobal.net
[This message has been edited by Thunder (edited 01-08-2000).]
I'm currently studying the possibility of swapping my 97 Expedition EB 5.4 4WD’s engine and tranny with one from the 99 Lightning. What I have gathered so far (mostly from posts in this bb) is that I would be needing the Lightning stock computer, instrument cluster, and the COP ignition to be able to do the transplant. I already have the lightning wheels and the front bumper and grille assembly. Brembo brakes for the Expedition are on order.
My questions are:
What other parts are needed to be able to successfully execute this transplant?
For those who already have purchased the lightning crate engine, what parts still need to be purchased (i.e. pulleys? Belts? Airbox?) Part numbers would be very much appreciated!
I understand that the transmission is the 4R100…is this exactly the same as the one in the diesels? Do they have the same part number?
Does anybody have the part numbers and pricing info on the COP ignition, instrument cluster and the computer module?
Mike Troyer mentioned that I might be needing a custom driveshaft. Can anyone ascertain this? I checked and it seems that the wheelbase of both the Lightning and the Expedition are the same at 119.8 inches.
Lastly, what suspension mods to the stock Expedition, other than the wider, lower profile tires, would I be need to keep the truck from tipping over at (increased) speed? I don’t want to lower the truck more than necessary.
Thanks for any info you guys might have and care to post. Kudos to all for the quality of this bb and for being such a great source of info!
I can also be reached by email at rainmaker@attglobal.net
[This message has been edited by Thunder (edited 01-08-2000).]
#2
01-09-2000 | 01:46 AM
Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 92
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From: Sloughhouse, CA USA
Hey Thunder,
I'm no expert but here are a few thoughts. Everything I have read says that the trans has the "guts" of the diesel in the gas case so it's probably unique to the lightning.
It will be very difficult to make an expedition handle very well without lowering it a bunch.
I think the custom driveshafts would be the easiest and least expensive part of the conversion.
Your best bet on making this project work would be to find a wrecked Lightning but it will still be very expen$ive.
It would be easier and probably less expensive to beef up your engine and trans and go with an aftermarket supercharger.
------------------
White 99 Lightning
Snugtop
Bedrug
I'm no expert but here are a few thoughts. Everything I have read says that the trans has the "guts" of the diesel in the gas case so it's probably unique to the lightning.
It will be very difficult to make an expedition handle very well without lowering it a bunch.
I think the custom driveshafts would be the easiest and least expensive part of the conversion.
Your best bet on making this project work would be to find a wrecked Lightning but it will still be very expen$ive.
It would be easier and probably less expensive to beef up your engine and trans and go with an aftermarket supercharger.
------------------
White 99 Lightning
Snugtop
Bedrug
#3
01-09-2000 | 01:50 AM
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 1,557
Likes: 0
From: Belleville, MI
....Or possibly wait for the SVT Expedition that has been rumored.
------------------
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
PFA
'99 WHITE LIGHTNIN'
#0873--1 of 866--
RHINO, Soft cover, LoJack, Valentine 1, Mobil 1
Superchip, Water Wetter, Phantom Boost Gauge
Best ET to date-13.54 @101.51MPH--10/29/99
Best MPH to date-102.33
NEWEST ADD.--16" SNOW TIRES
SuperChip out for now
'98 Red Lincoln Continental
------------------
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
PFA
'99 WHITE LIGHTNIN'
#0873--1 of 866--
RHINO, Soft cover, LoJack, Valentine 1, Mobil 1
Superchip, Water Wetter, Phantom Boost Gauge
Best ET to date-13.54 @101.51MPH--10/29/99
Best MPH to date-102.33
NEWEST ADD.--16" SNOW TIRES
SuperChip out for now
'98 Red Lincoln Continental
#5
01-09-2000 | 02:21 AM
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Thanks for the replies!
Jack77: I was also considering that route but getting a high quality supercharger (~$3,600) would cost just about the same as the crate engine. Add the cost of beefing up the engine and tranny plus all the other mods and I'll be right up there price-wise. Doing that is my second option, though. I just feel that if the engine and tranny swap is doable, it's a bit more manageable process than putting in lots of aftermarket parts to try to get the same amount of performance without the benefit of factory engineering that comes with getting the lightning engine and tranny!
Also, being that I live all the way in Manila, the Philippines, getting a wrecked lightning is slightly out of the question. The logistics of it are just too mind boggling unless I plan a trip out there soon. Considering that the only other person here with a Lightning is Jesus Romero Salas, the only way I can get my hands on a wrecked one is by sabotaging his brake lines and waiting...j/k!
PFA: Again, that was an option, but considering that they will be raising import duties on SUVs here to upwards of 100%, that would end up costing me around $100k, bone stock, assuming a sticker of around $50K and adding in freight and taxes and all that! Besides, I can't wait that long...instant gratification is where it's at!
On a separate note, the race to the $40k lightning was won before it was started...landed cost of a Lightning in Manila would be $43K, figuring in freight and taxes. In a couple of months, it goes up to around $60-70K after they impose the new tax rates! Imagine that!
Burninout: As mentioned above, I've considered those options too including getting a Roush Expedition, a Kenne Belle Expedition and all that. Waaay too much $$$!
The other alternative is getting a Lightning, and fairly soon at that. Gotta get all of this figured out pretty soon!
Thanks guys! Keep those ideas coming... Any chance I can get part #s off of ya?
------------------
Thunder
rainmaker@attglobal.net
Black 97 Expedition EB 5.4L 4WD
Mods: Lightning Wheels, Pirelli Scorpion Zero 285/55/18, K&N Gen II Kit, JET Chip
Audio: McIntosh MX406, McIntosh MCD4000, Zapco SX-SL, Zapco EQ30, Genesis Monoblocks (3), Genesis Dual Mono, Dynaudio System 340, Dynaudio System 220, JL Audio Stealthbox
[This message has been edited by Thunder (edited 01-09-2000).]
Jack77: I was also considering that route but getting a high quality supercharger (~$3,600) would cost just about the same as the crate engine. Add the cost of beefing up the engine and tranny plus all the other mods and I'll be right up there price-wise. Doing that is my second option, though. I just feel that if the engine and tranny swap is doable, it's a bit more manageable process than putting in lots of aftermarket parts to try to get the same amount of performance without the benefit of factory engineering that comes with getting the lightning engine and tranny!
Also, being that I live all the way in Manila, the Philippines, getting a wrecked lightning is slightly out of the question. The logistics of it are just too mind boggling unless I plan a trip out there soon. Considering that the only other person here with a Lightning is Jesus Romero Salas, the only way I can get my hands on a wrecked one is by sabotaging his brake lines and waiting...j/k!
PFA: Again, that was an option, but considering that they will be raising import duties on SUVs here to upwards of 100%, that would end up costing me around $100k, bone stock, assuming a sticker of around $50K and adding in freight and taxes and all that! Besides, I can't wait that long...instant gratification is where it's at!
On a separate note, the race to the $40k lightning was won before it was started...landed cost of a Lightning in Manila would be $43K, figuring in freight and taxes. In a couple of months, it goes up to around $60-70K after they impose the new tax rates! Imagine that!
Burninout: As mentioned above, I've considered those options too including getting a Roush Expedition, a Kenne Belle Expedition and all that. Waaay too much $$$!
The other alternative is getting a Lightning, and fairly soon at that. Gotta get all of this figured out pretty soon!
Thanks guys! Keep those ideas coming... Any chance I can get part #s off of ya?
------------------
Thunder
rainmaker@attglobal.net
Black 97 Expedition EB 5.4L 4WD
Mods: Lightning Wheels, Pirelli Scorpion Zero 285/55/18, K&N Gen II Kit, JET Chip
Audio: McIntosh MX406, McIntosh MCD4000, Zapco SX-SL, Zapco EQ30, Genesis Monoblocks (3), Genesis Dual Mono, Dynaudio System 340, Dynaudio System 220, JL Audio Stealthbox
[This message has been edited by Thunder (edited 01-09-2000).]
#6
01-09-2000 | 08:22 AM
Rest In Peace
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From: anchorage, alaska, usa, north america, earth, solar system, milky way
#7
01-09-2000 | 09:16 AM
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Joined: May 1999
Posts: 1,362
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From: Kennesaw, Ga. USA
Hey Ricky:
Got your e-mail, but the thread is of interest to all, so here is what I know and suggest.
1. Call Blue Springs Ford at 816-229-4400.
They were the source for the motors. As you live in the Phillipines, ask if they have a fax or e-mail address to save money. Probably not, as they do not even list the area code on their stationary!!
2. However you have to communicate, ask for the parts dept. and then for the guys who handled the Lightning deal. They know everything that is needed and at one point were supposed to come up with a "package deal".
3. Prepare to change your underwear when you hear how much the new parts will cost.
4. Start a new thread looking for a wrecked Lightning. There have been at least three that I know of so far on this board. You can then decide if you want a new motor and the rest from a wreck or just buy the complete assy out of a wreck. No-one that I know of here has really abused their truck, so you should be ok either way.
5. I say all this because I went through a lot of research, didn't keep a file on numbers and cost per each item, but I can tell you that you will most likely need to complete the power train all the way through, about 3k new. Lightning specific computer and wiring, about $600 new, instruments, did not price, several pulleys and belts $600 +, starter, complete air intake system $1k and on and on.
6. Due to this, I aborted my '56 F100 project and am currently trying to trade the motor for a built 360/C6 combo or I will sell it to someone who does this for a living.
The motor was a steal, certainly one of those rare opportunities and I am sure it was a mistake for them to get in the parts system and sure the price was way low. My dealer gets just shy of $8000 for that same part number and he can't get any. My guess, and that of a couple of Ford employees, is that it got plugged in at COP (Cost of Production) by mistake.
In any case, I would try to get a complete power train out of a wreck and go from there.
Bill
------------------
Bill Murray
99 Lightning
PSP Chip & Filter
Spare Superchip
Bassani full system TBI
Oxford White w/normal options.
98 Lincoln Continental Stock
56 F100 Big Window 272 w/TBird intake headers Fordomatic
56 F100 small window w/built 300" I6
69 Belair 39/427/400 Built
69 C10 Panel Stock
Soon: 92 Town Car
Tamiya 1/10 Lightning
Lightning & Thunder Rag Doll Cats.
Got your e-mail, but the thread is of interest to all, so here is what I know and suggest.
1. Call Blue Springs Ford at 816-229-4400.
They were the source for the motors. As you live in the Phillipines, ask if they have a fax or e-mail address to save money. Probably not, as they do not even list the area code on their stationary!!
2. However you have to communicate, ask for the parts dept. and then for the guys who handled the Lightning deal. They know everything that is needed and at one point were supposed to come up with a "package deal".
3. Prepare to change your underwear when you hear how much the new parts will cost.
4. Start a new thread looking for a wrecked Lightning. There have been at least three that I know of so far on this board. You can then decide if you want a new motor and the rest from a wreck or just buy the complete assy out of a wreck. No-one that I know of here has really abused their truck, so you should be ok either way.
5. I say all this because I went through a lot of research, didn't keep a file on numbers and cost per each item, but I can tell you that you will most likely need to complete the power train all the way through, about 3k new. Lightning specific computer and wiring, about $600 new, instruments, did not price, several pulleys and belts $600 +, starter, complete air intake system $1k and on and on.
6. Due to this, I aborted my '56 F100 project and am currently trying to trade the motor for a built 360/C6 combo or I will sell it to someone who does this for a living.
The motor was a steal, certainly one of those rare opportunities and I am sure it was a mistake for them to get in the parts system and sure the price was way low. My dealer gets just shy of $8000 for that same part number and he can't get any. My guess, and that of a couple of Ford employees, is that it got plugged in at COP (Cost of Production) by mistake.
In any case, I would try to get a complete power train out of a wreck and go from there.
Bill
------------------
Bill Murray
99 Lightning
PSP Chip & Filter
Spare Superchip
Bassani full system TBI
Oxford White w/normal options.
98 Lincoln Continental Stock
56 F100 Big Window 272 w/TBird intake headers Fordomatic
56 F100 small window w/built 300" I6
69 Belair 39/427/400 Built
69 C10 Panel Stock
Soon: 92 Town Car
Tamiya 1/10 Lightning
Lightning & Thunder Rag Doll Cats.
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#8
01-09-2000 | 10:20 PM
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Joined: Sep 1999
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From: minnesota
#9
01-10-2000 | 07:56 AM
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That's a very good point, Brian. And that was the original plan. Ford only sells the 4.6L here for both the Expeditions and the F-150s. I'm sure people wouldn't mind getting their hands on a 5.4L and all the necessary parts. The only hitch is since Ford doesn't sell those engines here, they don't stock parts. Also, I was thinking that I'd rather keep the engine just in case I blow the lightning engine somehow, I'd have another one to modify and drop in. It would also be good to have it nearby, just in case I want to sell the truck stock and keep the Lightning parts.
By the way, I found Ford's local source for interiors (local laws require a minimum local content). They import hides from Germany and they do custom leather interiors. A friend of mine got a quote for a custom interior for a Porsche 911 and it came up to a tad shy of $800. I'm getting a quote next week for a custom two tone "Lightning" interior. That should look awesome on the expy...
The total cost of this whole project is sure racking up fast!
------------------
Thunder
rainmaker@attglobal.net
Black 97 Expedition EB 5.4L 4WD
Mods: Lightning Wheels, Pirelli Scorpion Zero 285/55/18, K&N Gen II Kit, JET Chip
Audio: McIntosh MX406, McIntosh MCD4000, Zapco SX-SL, Zapco EQ30, Genesis Monoblocks (3), Genesis Dual Mono, Dynaudio System 340, Dynaudio System 220, JL Audio Stealthbox
By the way, I found Ford's local source for interiors (local laws require a minimum local content). They import hides from Germany and they do custom leather interiors. A friend of mine got a quote for a custom interior for a Porsche 911 and it came up to a tad shy of $800. I'm getting a quote next week for a custom two tone "Lightning" interior. That should look awesome on the expy...
The total cost of this whole project is sure racking up fast!
------------------
Thunder
rainmaker@attglobal.net
Black 97 Expedition EB 5.4L 4WD
Mods: Lightning Wheels, Pirelli Scorpion Zero 285/55/18, K&N Gen II Kit, JET Chip
Audio: McIntosh MX406, McIntosh MCD4000, Zapco SX-SL, Zapco EQ30, Genesis Monoblocks (3), Genesis Dual Mono, Dynaudio System 340, Dynaudio System 220, JL Audio Stealthbox
#10
01-10-2000 | 05:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 925
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver,BC,Canada
#11
01-11-2000 | 12:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2000
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Likes: 0
Blacklight,
Jesus Romero Salas wanted to find out if you have contact details (phone or email address)for this vendor. Pricing seems reasonable for a truck with only 1250 miles on it. Build number would be good too. He can't get online right now and asked me to ask you.
Thanks
------------------
Thunder
rainmaker@attglobal.net
Black 97 Expedition EB 5.4L 4WD
Mods: Lightning Wheels, Pirelli Scorpion Zero 285/55/18, K&N Gen II Kit, JET Chip
Audio: McIntosh MX406, McIntosh MCD4000, Zapco SX-SL, Zapco EQ30, Genesis Monoblocks (3), Genesis Dual Mono, Dynaudio System 340, Dynaudio System 220, JL Audio Stealthbox
Jesus Romero Salas wanted to find out if you have contact details (phone or email address)for this vendor. Pricing seems reasonable for a truck with only 1250 miles on it. Build number would be good too. He can't get online right now and asked me to ask you.
Thanks
------------------
Thunder
rainmaker@attglobal.net
Black 97 Expedition EB 5.4L 4WD
Mods: Lightning Wheels, Pirelli Scorpion Zero 285/55/18, K&N Gen II Kit, JET Chip
Audio: McIntosh MX406, McIntosh MCD4000, Zapco SX-SL, Zapco EQ30, Genesis Monoblocks (3), Genesis Dual Mono, Dynaudio System 340, Dynaudio System 220, JL Audio Stealthbox
#12
01-11-2000 | 11:00 AM
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 925
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver,BC,Canada
604-685-9773
Looks like a private sale. It has been in the paper for Sunday and Monday, but today's ad has no mileage.
I phoned, the guy is called Vess, and it has 900 km on, not 2000. It is around 10 km from my work, I can drop by to take a look after work if you want.
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99 Black Lightning
Rhino liner
Superchip
[This message has been edited by BlackLight (edited 01-11-2000).]
Looks like a private sale. It has been in the paper for Sunday and Monday, but today's ad has no mileage.
I phoned, the guy is called Vess, and it has 900 km on, not 2000. It is around 10 km from my work, I can drop by to take a look after work if you want.
------------------
99 Black Lightning
Rhino liner
Superchip
[This message has been edited by BlackLight (edited 01-11-2000).]
#13
01-11-2000 | 01:15 PM
Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: Philippines
#14
01-11-2000 | 03:06 PM
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 925
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver,BC,Canada
We have had 6 inches of snow in the last hour and it is still snowing. If this keeps up I will not go, but maybe tomorrow. (I have excellent snow tires, but most other people do not know how to drive in the stuff !)
The truck is in the West-end of Vancouver municipality, I am in Burnaby, close to the #1 Highway.
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99 Black Lightning
Rhino liner
Superchip
The truck is in the West-end of Vancouver municipality, I am in Burnaby, close to the #1 Highway.
------------------
99 Black Lightning
Rhino liner
Superchip