Ian- Thanks for the help, and for posting your observations on the new setup. Aren't the stock springs the mutt's nuts for daily driver duty?

Anyway, I presume these traction bars need to go in the same pile as my Hotchkis and QA1 shocks.

 

SVC.....I don't know about mutts nuts but they are the bee's knees...

I wish the spindles were around sooner the stock springs really are awesome, the stock setup was almost perfect just needed better shocks and a lower CG, and stiffer swaybar.

now to put in some factory 2004 rear leafs with the overload removed and ruslow sliders.....ugg those sliders are gonna be a biotch to install

 

The newly found info on the Konis is great. For high hp/tq drag duty the long bars are it, for corner carving they aren't. They are easily removed if wanted, only four bolts hold them on. The same can't be said for the other style traction aides.

I just completed installing some DJM upper/lower arms that I got from Tim and I'll most likely need a stiffer shock and or sway bar to prevent my tires from contacting the fender lip. I had cut stock springs and now have full length stock coils with the top isolator installed.

 

Incog, go for the koni's youll love them.

30-1658 for front
30-1659 rear

talk to arthur or mark at www.shox.com

 

Don't read too much into my comments. Many people are happy with the long bars, including some who road race.

I was just trying to point out a possible cause for the subjective feeling of increased spring rate. Maybe you just have the bars clamped too tightly, or not lubed well enough, or the mounts are too close together, or . . .

The differential arc comment was just thinking out loud. The binding, if any, may be completely unrelated to this observation.

I will soon be without traction bars. I almost never stomp from a dead stop on the street, and never do at the track. So I am going to shed 35 lbs and eliminate another potential source of unwanted influence on handling. I want to put together the perfect base suspension, then maybe mess around from there.

 

If you're happy with the ride and handling, and are just trying to stop the wheels from contacting, check out my spring spacer page. You can get urethane isolators that can give you back as much as 1.5" of ride height.

 

a little more info on the koni's

(in newtonwhatevers)
front
rebound 1400
compression 500

rear
rebound 1000
compression 450

the click system is 0-1-2-3

0 being the above settings
1 being 20% firmer
2 being 50% firmer
3 being 100% firmer

it is the rebound that is adjusted by the clicks

 

I've perused your site in full Tim. The issue is keeping the lowered stance I had/have and trying to make it just stiff enough to hit the bumpstops under my most spirited driving. It will take some trial and error again to get it like I want but it won't be too much. I may use a spring rubber to stiffen the coils a bit.

 

Is the rate of the Bilsteins known as well for comparision's sake? Thanks for the info Ian.

 

shock rates are not comparable because they are tested at different velocities by the different mfg's.

for example

Bilstein BE5-2571

in newton meteres

rebound 2790
compression 685
tested @ .52 meters per second velocity

Koni 30-1658

rebound 1450
compression 500
tested @ .33 meters per second velocity

as the velocity increase so do the rebound and compression numbers, hence if koni tested at the same .52 meters per second their numbers may be even higher than bilsteins. also factor in the adjustments on the koni.

they only true test is to send all shocks to ONE pleace to test on a shock dyno at the same velocity.

 

You need a shock dyno graph to be able to compare. You have to compare compression or rebound at a given speed.



For instance, a racing shock may have straightline damping, whereas a street shock (like Edelbrock IAS) may have progressive damping to be very compliant over little/fast bumps and less compliant over large/slow bumps. So if you compress the shock very quickly (like a sharp bump), it will give, but a slow push (like weight transfer) will meet with more resistance.



Sophisticated strategies like this are I'm sure responsible for why QA1s have less subjective comfort than Bilsteins and other shocks with "street" valving.

 

When a shock absorber is compressed, the bump stroke, the piston rod moves inwards and displaces a proportional volume of oil. In case of a twin-tube damper the oil is forced through the foot valve system to the space between both tubes (the reservoir). The resistance thus produced is the bump damping force. During the rebound stroke the oil flows back again from the reservoir: the damping force is now produced by the valve system in the piston.

The twin-tube gas-hydraulic damper works in the same manner, but in addition to the oil, the reservoir is also filled with a quantity of gas. Thus, the interior of the damper is under a (relatively low) pressure.

High-pressure gas dampers are constructed differently. They are monotube dampers with oil and gas in one space, separated by a free-floating piston. Compressing the gas to a varying degree will compensate for the ever varying volume of the piston rod moving in and out.

These different damper constructions each have their own specific characteristics that can be of great influence on the road behaviour of the car. A 'random' application of gas-pressured dampers can increase the driving height of a car, negatively affecting it's stability. For this reason the KONI research engineers always opt for the technology that produces the best results for a specific car with regard to handling, safety and comfort.

Damping Characteristics And Adjustability
The characteristics of shock absorbers hardly ever get the attention they deserve despite the damper being responsible for comfort, roadholding, stability and safety. For instance, the shape of the damping characteristics when plotted on a graph is of great importance: the KONI experts emphasize this when developing.



This is a so called Force-Velocity diagram of a KONI damper. It shows the relation between damping forces and the speed of the damper in operation. When a car accelerates, brakes or rolls, typical damper speeds are in the (A) area.

Damper speeds caused by road surface irregularities usually are in the (B) area. Our engineers tune the damping forces in both ranges separately to a large degree. Their aim is an optimum balance between handling and comfort.

 

LOL

 

try talking to a good ol' boy from south carolina, listening to him say with his accent "newtonmeters" over and over.....it gets pretty funny.

 

No, you got me thinking and that's what I need to either fix it, or ditch it.

The thing I can't figure out is, if my tires are spinning and not hopping, do I "need" traction bars? I also don't hammer it from a stop that much at all.

Are you guys ordering your Hellwigs directly from them?

Wow, this thread is a monster. Thanks for all of the input.