How much lower Timing with Nitrous?
#1
How much lower Timing with Nitrous?
(Did the search, not much found)
I run 17-18 degrees normally. Combination is all the typical bolt-ons, completely stock long block (see signature for mods).
My concern is how much I need to retard with a 75 shot, but also not to steal away power from the nitrous by retarding timing too much.
I will also have at least 50/50 mix between 93 octane and 100 octane race unleaded, possibly up to 75% race gas when I run it.
So, what's everybody doing on timing?
I run 17-18 degrees normally. Combination is all the typical bolt-ons, completely stock long block (see signature for mods).
My concern is how much I need to retard with a 75 shot, but also not to steal away power from the nitrous by retarding timing too much.
I will also have at least 50/50 mix between 93 octane and 100 octane race unleaded, possibly up to 75% race gas when I run it.
So, what's everybody doing on timing?
#3
#4
Not all L's are alike but on my orig 02 Lightning and long "BEFORE" I ever had one single problem with it (the 3 years I was doing the wrenching). My set up was a 4lb lower, 2lb upper, Ported Eaton, 75 Shot, and JLP Mail Order Tuning. Johnny had me at over 500 RWHP with a AF in the 9's and very low 10's with 16 degrees of timing "and I absolutely LOVED that tune". AMOF I used it 24/7 as a cold weather non nitrous street tune for years, it brought me 11 after 11 after 11 and I got "3" racing seasons out of 1 set of plugs with stock pumps, inj, & maf
So in my case all I can say is even with a chit load of Boost, 94 Octane Sunoco (we still had it back then) and A LOT of spraying on the street/track (I had a local track and went racing often back then), I never once had a problem, and I got 02,03,and the 04 racing season out of the same set of plugs, SO IT WORKED FOR ME : o )
(remember "LOCKING" the timing on your N20 tune is a smart move)
and for the record I also hit it with my 19 degree non nitrous tune on ocassions and never had prob's with that either on pump gas
Then I went to a built motor and all my troubles started......... :o
You really should be fine @ 16 with an Eaton/SB combo
So in my case all I can say is even with a chit load of Boost, 94 Octane Sunoco (we still had it back then) and A LOT of spraying on the street/track (I had a local track and went racing often back then), I never once had a problem, and I got 02,03,and the 04 racing season out of the same set of plugs, SO IT WORKED FOR ME : o )
(remember "LOCKING" the timing on your N20 tune is a smart move)
and for the record I also hit it with my 19 degree non nitrous tune on ocassions and never had prob's with that either on pump gas
Then I went to a built motor and all my troubles started......... :o
You really should be fine @ 16 with an Eaton/SB combo
#5
Originally Posted by Rob_00Lightning
Not all L's are alike but on my orig 02 Lightning and long "BEFORE" I ever had one single problem with it (the 3 years I was doing the wrenching). My set up was a 4lb lower, 2lb upper, Ported Eaton, 75 Shot, and JLP Mail Order Tuning. Johnny had me at over 500 RWHP with a AF in the 9's and very low 10's with 16 degrees of timing "and I absolutely LOVED that tune". AMOF I used it 24/7 as a cold weather non nitrous street tune for years, it brought me 11 after 11 after 11 and I got "3" racing seasons out of 1 set of plugs with stock pumps, inj, & maf
So in my case all I can say is even with a chit load of Boost, 94 Octane Sunoco (we still had it back then) and A LOT of spraying on the street/track (I had a local track and went racing often back then), I never once had a problem, and I got 02,03,and the 04 racing season out of the same set of plugs, SO IT WORKED FOR ME : o )
(remember "LOCKING" the timing on your N20 tune is a smart move)
and for the record I also hit it with my 19 degree non nitrous tune on ocassions and never had prob's with that either on pump gas
Then I went to a built motor and all my troubles started......... :o
You really should be fine @ 16 with an Eaton/SB combo
So in my case all I can say is even with a chit load of Boost, 94 Octane Sunoco (we still had it back then) and A LOT of spraying on the street/track (I had a local track and went racing often back then), I never once had a problem, and I got 02,03,and the 04 racing season out of the same set of plugs, SO IT WORKED FOR ME : o )
(remember "LOCKING" the timing on your N20 tune is a smart move)
and for the record I also hit it with my 19 degree non nitrous tune on ocassions and never had prob's with that either on pump gas
Then I went to a built motor and all my troubles started......... :o
You really should be fine @ 16 with an Eaton/SB combo
I will go with 16 degrees and 100 octane race gas just as an insurance policy.
I can modify the timing via the Predator, but I was unaware of any way to "lock" the timing. In the Mustangs, it used to be leaving the spout connector out of the wiring harness and adjusting the distributor with a timing light.
So how is timing "locked out" in the Lightnings?
#7
Originally Posted by Ct.TOPGUN
Very curious why Rob feels locking the timing is a good idea for nitrous applications? Please elaborate.
Jim
Jim
I just don't know how it's locked on these trucks.
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#8
Jim,
Blown explained it very well and to tell you the truth if you asked me if my JDM N20 tune has locked timing I couldnt honestly tell ya. But I can tell you on the stock block and with a couple of tuners I used this has always been a discussion we had. In the winter months you know a L can add up to 3 degrees of timing, for people boosting it up on a stock block and then spraying on top of it (on the coldest days they could find before the tracks closed), that in itself could be instant destruction......
Hence the reason I always used my n20 tune with timing that was locked
(meaning it will not increase pass 16 no matter what temp or rpm), and hence the reason I used my n20 tune all winter long as a street tune.
I can honestly say that Sal once dyno'd my 02 on a cool night (before he was tuning it) and showed me on screen that I was running 3 degrees more on my street program than I thought. AMOF my street tune was showing 21 degrees of timing on pump gas with crazy boost, foot to the floor, hi RPM, and stock Rods : o () Man that Eaton will take a lot of timing on pump gas, BUT as for the stock rods, "YIKES" ....
BTW, I understand A LOT of Race Tunes (n20 or not) have the timing (locked if you will) so it will NOT go past a certain degree
Blown explained it very well and to tell you the truth if you asked me if my JDM N20 tune has locked timing I couldnt honestly tell ya. But I can tell you on the stock block and with a couple of tuners I used this has always been a discussion we had. In the winter months you know a L can add up to 3 degrees of timing, for people boosting it up on a stock block and then spraying on top of it (on the coldest days they could find before the tracks closed), that in itself could be instant destruction......
Hence the reason I always used my n20 tune with timing that was locked
(meaning it will not increase pass 16 no matter what temp or rpm), and hence the reason I used my n20 tune all winter long as a street tune.
I can honestly say that Sal once dyno'd my 02 on a cool night (before he was tuning it) and showed me on screen that I was running 3 degrees more on my street program than I thought. AMOF my street tune was showing 21 degrees of timing on pump gas with crazy boost, foot to the floor, hi RPM, and stock Rods : o () Man that Eaton will take a lot of timing on pump gas, BUT as for the stock rods, "YIKES" ....
BTW, I understand A LOT of Race Tunes (n20 or not) have the timing (locked if you will) so it will NOT go past a certain degree
#9
I guess it makes sense to limit timing advance in the tune. What I oppose is eliminating the safety net of pulling timing in the event of high IAT2 temps among other things.
No reason a tune can't be made with additional timing restricted, but leaving the ability to pull timing intact. I would not call this "locked" timing. Truly locked timing seems needlesly risky.
Jim
(also, I feel we pull way too much timing on our nitrous tunes as it is. The introduction of N2O in the inlet tract lowers my IAT2 temps a great deal. Even though more cylinder pressure will be made, and much more power, I feel the risk of detonation is not much higher on reasonable shots of 100HP or less.)
No reason a tune can't be made with additional timing restricted, but leaving the ability to pull timing intact. I would not call this "locked" timing. Truly locked timing seems needlesly risky.
Jim
(also, I feel we pull way too much timing on our nitrous tunes as it is. The introduction of N2O in the inlet tract lowers my IAT2 temps a great deal. Even though more cylinder pressure will be made, and much more power, I feel the risk of detonation is not much higher on reasonable shots of 100HP or less.)
#11
Originally Posted by Ct.TOPGUN
(also, I feel we pull way too much timing on our nitrous tunes as it is. The introduction of N2O in the inlet tract lowers my IAT2 temps a great deal. Even though more cylinder pressure will be made, and much more power, I feel the risk of detonation is not much higher on reasonable shots of 100HP or less.)
#13
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