06' GTO VS 03' Lightning
#46
03-08-2008, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TrackBeast
The competition is getting pretty tough out there.
Stock for stock the new Cobalt SS shows better numbers than a stock Lightning.
0-60 5.7 vs 5.8 and .9 g on the skid pad with 4 piston caliper brakes.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...8/newsletter01
The point is that there are now several dozen vehicles that can easily keep up with the Lightning, even if your only measure is straight line acceleration. Including some relitively inexpensive ones...
Stock for stock the new Cobalt SS shows better numbers than a stock Lightning.
0-60 5.7 vs 5.8 and .9 g on the skid pad with 4 piston caliper brakes.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...8/newsletter01
The point is that there are now several dozen vehicles that can easily keep up with the Lightning, even if your only measure is straight line acceleration. Including some relitively inexpensive ones...
#47
03-09-2008, 12:09 PM
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Good Question - I Have Both
That's a good question. I happen to have both of the vehicles - EXACTLY - as described in the proposed acceleration contest! And I've evaluated each of them EXTENSIVELY an the track - several times simultaneously (took both to the 'strip on the same day).
2006 cyclone gray LS2 GTO, auto, absolutely bone stock, 22000 miles
2000 silver Lightning, lots of bolt-ons, 15.5 PSI/ca. 400 RWHP, Nittos, 15000 miles
Basically, here's the scoop...
If the GTO is a 6-speed, it has more speed POTENTIAL than a comparable auto, but it will take a very, very good driver indeed to tap that potential from a standing start. Autos are over-represented at the top of the various "fastest" lists over at the goat boards, and for good reason. If the guy has an auto, good for him, as far as this race goes. If he has a manual and can REALLY, REALLY drive - even better for him. If he's some squid with a stick, that's good for you.
I have a well-cared-for, very strong (borderline factory-freak, some claim) GTO. I am a very experienced drag racer, which is the critical factor, as far as I'm concerned. It is the the 13th fastest reported stocker in this hemisphere, and I know that at least half of those ahead of me on the list are "illegally" modified (like drag radials, an intake, or a tune). I know that the magazines claim 13.3, and you've seen a bunch of them running mid-13's, and the internet is full of mid-13's, but trust me - THEYRE CONSIDERABLY FASTER IN THE HANDS OF A COMPETENT DRIVER. I never caught a really, really fat air day last year, and I ran 13.0@107 (once). Compiling EVERY pass I've made with it since new (including all of the blown passes - sideways out of the hole, etc), all sorts of air, fully HALF of the slips are faster than 13.30, and a good quarter of them faster than 13.20. A good solid pass looks something like 13.20/106/1.97. And I can dial up a pass like that, at will, by aggressively heating the hides and letting it rip.
I have several hundred passes on the Lightning, and can handle my business at the track with it as well. It was strong as a stocker, and I've certainly taken care of the thing. I make about 15.5 PSI of boost on a cool day, and I have all of the usual supporting mods (power and traction). I've ripped off a 12.65@106 (once) in very fat air. Again, dialing up a good, strong, consistent pass is no more difficult than putting a ton of heat in the 555R's, staging, and trying to push your foot through the firewall on the third amber. In good (not great) air, a typical good solid pass looks something like 12.85/105/1.85. When the air gets hot and thin, think more in the range of 13.00. On that same day, the goat will run 13.30. I don't think that the LS2 is as sensitive to heat - AS LONG AS YOU GET A GOOD COOLDOWN BEFORE MAKING A PASS.
So rolling it all up...
The Lightning is quicker in a 1/4 mile dragstrip contest, by about a quarter-second. So reaction time is critical.
The Lightning's advantage is ALL in the first 100 feet or so. After that, you're just looking in your rear-view and trying to preserve that thin margin. At the eighth-mile, the Goat is showing comparable or higher speed. At the finish, the GTO has a 1-2 MPH advantage, building QUICKLY at distances beyond 1320 feet. In another half-mile, the GTO will be up around 150 MPH. The Lightning, I can assure you, will NOT.
Clearly, the Lightning's advantage in any contest of this sort is traction out of the hole and VERY low-end acceleration. This is its ONLY advantage. Negate this, and it's a guaranteed loss. And when we talk low-end acceleration, recognize that a 400 ft-lb LS2 in a 3700-pound coupe is a pretty stout combination.
So the various possible configurations, driver-for-driver...
Standing start, distances out to 1/4 mile - LIGHTNING
Standing start, distances beyond 1/4 mile - GTO
Rolling start under 20 MPH, distances up to 1/8 mile - LIGHTNING
Rolling start under 20 MPH, distances over 1/8 mile - GTO
Rolling start over 20 MPH - GTO
Highway top speed contest - GTO
Negotiate your race well, and I hope you can drive. Let us know how it goes. The good part is, I don't necessarily care who wins - I'm on the winning team either way! Although, I'm giving race-winning advice over here, only...
2006 cyclone gray LS2 GTO, auto, absolutely bone stock, 22000 miles
2000 silver Lightning, lots of bolt-ons, 15.5 PSI/ca. 400 RWHP, Nittos, 15000 miles
Basically, here's the scoop...
If the GTO is a 6-speed, it has more speed POTENTIAL than a comparable auto, but it will take a very, very good driver indeed to tap that potential from a standing start. Autos are over-represented at the top of the various "fastest" lists over at the goat boards, and for good reason. If the guy has an auto, good for him, as far as this race goes. If he has a manual and can REALLY, REALLY drive - even better for him. If he's some squid with a stick, that's good for you.
I have a well-cared-for, very strong (borderline factory-freak, some claim) GTO. I am a very experienced drag racer, which is the critical factor, as far as I'm concerned. It is the the 13th fastest reported stocker in this hemisphere, and I know that at least half of those ahead of me on the list are "illegally" modified (like drag radials, an intake, or a tune). I know that the magazines claim 13.3, and you've seen a bunch of them running mid-13's, and the internet is full of mid-13's, but trust me - THEYRE CONSIDERABLY FASTER IN THE HANDS OF A COMPETENT DRIVER. I never caught a really, really fat air day last year, and I ran 13.0@107 (once). Compiling EVERY pass I've made with it since new (including all of the blown passes - sideways out of the hole, etc), all sorts of air, fully HALF of the slips are faster than 13.30, and a good quarter of them faster than 13.20. A good solid pass looks something like 13.20/106/1.97. And I can dial up a pass like that, at will, by aggressively heating the hides and letting it rip.
I have several hundred passes on the Lightning, and can handle my business at the track with it as well. It was strong as a stocker, and I've certainly taken care of the thing. I make about 15.5 PSI of boost on a cool day, and I have all of the usual supporting mods (power and traction). I've ripped off a 12.65@106 (once) in very fat air. Again, dialing up a good, strong, consistent pass is no more difficult than putting a ton of heat in the 555R's, staging, and trying to push your foot through the firewall on the third amber. In good (not great) air, a typical good solid pass looks something like 12.85/105/1.85. When the air gets hot and thin, think more in the range of 13.00. On that same day, the goat will run 13.30. I don't think that the LS2 is as sensitive to heat - AS LONG AS YOU GET A GOOD COOLDOWN BEFORE MAKING A PASS.
So rolling it all up...
The Lightning is quicker in a 1/4 mile dragstrip contest, by about a quarter-second. So reaction time is critical.
The Lightning's advantage is ALL in the first 100 feet or so. After that, you're just looking in your rear-view and trying to preserve that thin margin. At the eighth-mile, the Goat is showing comparable or higher speed. At the finish, the GTO has a 1-2 MPH advantage, building QUICKLY at distances beyond 1320 feet. In another half-mile, the GTO will be up around 150 MPH. The Lightning, I can assure you, will NOT.
Clearly, the Lightning's advantage in any contest of this sort is traction out of the hole and VERY low-end acceleration. This is its ONLY advantage. Negate this, and it's a guaranteed loss. And when we talk low-end acceleration, recognize that a 400 ft-lb LS2 in a 3700-pound coupe is a pretty stout combination.
So the various possible configurations, driver-for-driver...
Standing start, distances out to 1/4 mile - LIGHTNING
Standing start, distances beyond 1/4 mile - GTO
Rolling start under 20 MPH, distances up to 1/8 mile - LIGHTNING
Rolling start under 20 MPH, distances over 1/8 mile - GTO
Rolling start over 20 MPH - GTO
Highway top speed contest - GTO
Negotiate your race well, and I hope you can drive. Let us know how it goes. The good part is, I don't necessarily care who wins - I'm on the winning team either way! Although, I'm giving race-winning advice over here, only...
#48
03-09-2008, 01:54 PM
Originally Posted by noah
I thought the 01-04's were 0-60 in 5.2...The 99-00 were probably closer to 5.7 or so...Not like it matters, my aeroforce now tells me my 0-60's are in the upper 3's
99-00 6.2 and 01+ 5.8 That was fast back then for a stock vehicle. The magazines got similar numbers.
I'm amazed by how many cars are now in the sub 5 second range.
Now that the GTO is gone, the 2009 LS3 powered G8 GXP looks promising. If they can dress it up, the exterior styling seems to be a mix of BMW 3 series and Audi A4. But I wasn't very impressed with the interior with its cheap plastic panels.
#49
03-09-2008, 03:54 PM
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I'm hoping for a new GTO...
Holden Fans Get 60th Anniversary Present
GM Holden today marked the diamond anniversary of its first all Australian car by unveiling a stunning two-door performance thoroughbred called Coupe 60.
Coupe 60 celebrates the six decades since GM Holden built the 48-215 at its Fishermans Bend plant in Port Melbourne, Victoria, and provides a glimpse of Holden's future directions in design, engineering and emerging engine technologies.
Exemplifying sports luxury, Coupe 60 is a pillarless concept car that explores the limits of Holden's current rear-wheel drive capabilities, combining racing looks and technology into a road going sportscar experience.
Its sophisticated appearance is delivered through simple and powerful design, highlighted by the pillarless construction and V8 supercar inspired ****pit layout and side-exiting chambered exhaust system with billet alloy tips.
Almost 60mm shorter than the VE sedan, and sitting on 21-inch centre-lock alloy wheels with unique design Kumho high performance semi-slick tyres, Coupe 60 captures all that's exciting about the Holden DNA.
Other racing-derived enhancements include full flat under body, rear underbody air diffuser and functional rear deck-lid spoiler with unique designed LED tail lamps.
The interior also has several unique features. They include one piece carbon fiber bucket seats (featuring leather and suede pad design) and a sports-inspired flat bottomed steering wheel with integrated shift light display and LCD sports instrument cluster.
The high gloss carbon fiber carries through to doors and rear trim providing a contrast to the leather trimmed instrument panel and black suede trimmed pillars, headliners and parcel shelf.
Details and accents are picked out with a distinctive red high shine leather on the seats and dark gunmetal finish and satin chrome on the consoles and doors.
Front seats are adjustable fore and aft to allow easy access to the rear, with four-point race harness restraints for all seating positions.
Under the bonnet is just as forward looking, with a 6.0 litre V8 engine incorporating the latest technologies such as active fuel management and calibrated for E85 ethanol fuel.
Even the paint is a one-off. Called 'Diamond Silver' by Holden designers, it gives a liquid aluminium finish that almost slides off the bodywork.
GM Holden Chairman and Managing Director Mark Reuss said, "Coupe 60 is Holden's 60th anniversary gift to its fans worldwide.
"It highlights Holden's heritage of rear wheel drive performance whilst looking ahead to the potential offered by new technologies and materials.
"This is a vehicle I know our designers would dearly love to see go into production, but for the moment it has to remain a concept only," he said.
Project Designer Manager, Peter Hughes, said, "We were looking to mark the diamond anniversary with a car that captured the Holden DNA and took the current VE range to an exciting next step.
"Even in the early stages of VE development, we knew there was a sensational coupe waiting to get out and the 60 th anniversary has given us the chance to explore that.
"With Coupe 60 we think we have designed a car that has the potential to write another chapter in the book of Holden icons."
Holden Fans Get 60th Anniversary Present
GM Holden today marked the diamond anniversary of its first all Australian car by unveiling a stunning two-door performance thoroughbred called Coupe 60.
Coupe 60 celebrates the six decades since GM Holden built the 48-215 at its Fishermans Bend plant in Port Melbourne, Victoria, and provides a glimpse of Holden's future directions in design, engineering and emerging engine technologies.
Exemplifying sports luxury, Coupe 60 is a pillarless concept car that explores the limits of Holden's current rear-wheel drive capabilities, combining racing looks and technology into a road going sportscar experience.
Its sophisticated appearance is delivered through simple and powerful design, highlighted by the pillarless construction and V8 supercar inspired ****pit layout and side-exiting chambered exhaust system with billet alloy tips.
Almost 60mm shorter than the VE sedan, and sitting on 21-inch centre-lock alloy wheels with unique design Kumho high performance semi-slick tyres, Coupe 60 captures all that's exciting about the Holden DNA.
Other racing-derived enhancements include full flat under body, rear underbody air diffuser and functional rear deck-lid spoiler with unique designed LED tail lamps.
The interior also has several unique features. They include one piece carbon fiber bucket seats (featuring leather and suede pad design) and a sports-inspired flat bottomed steering wheel with integrated shift light display and LCD sports instrument cluster.
The high gloss carbon fiber carries through to doors and rear trim providing a contrast to the leather trimmed instrument panel and black suede trimmed pillars, headliners and parcel shelf.
Details and accents are picked out with a distinctive red high shine leather on the seats and dark gunmetal finish and satin chrome on the consoles and doors.
Front seats are adjustable fore and aft to allow easy access to the rear, with four-point race harness restraints for all seating positions.
Under the bonnet is just as forward looking, with a 6.0 litre V8 engine incorporating the latest technologies such as active fuel management and calibrated for E85 ethanol fuel.
Even the paint is a one-off. Called 'Diamond Silver' by Holden designers, it gives a liquid aluminium finish that almost slides off the bodywork.
GM Holden Chairman and Managing Director Mark Reuss said, "Coupe 60 is Holden's 60th anniversary gift to its fans worldwide.
"It highlights Holden's heritage of rear wheel drive performance whilst looking ahead to the potential offered by new technologies and materials.
"This is a vehicle I know our designers would dearly love to see go into production, but for the moment it has to remain a concept only," he said.
Project Designer Manager, Peter Hughes, said, "We were looking to mark the diamond anniversary with a car that captured the Holden DNA and took the current VE range to an exciting next step.
"Even in the early stages of VE development, we knew there was a sensational coupe waiting to get out and the 60 th anniversary has given us the chance to explore that.
"With Coupe 60 we think we have designed a car that has the potential to write another chapter in the book of Holden icons."
#50
03-09-2008, 03:55 PM
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Coupe 60 – Specifications and Features (Coupe 60 overlaid on VE Sedan)
Main Features:
Pillarless coupe body;
Derived from flexible GRWD platform;
VE sedan wheelbase.
Powertrain:
6.0L V8 with Active Fuel Management, calibrated for E85 Ethanol fuel;
6-speed manual transmission (SS specification);
Engine oil cooler.
Exterior:
Unique "Diamond Silver" paint colour;
Electrically dropping front & rear side windows;
Racing-derived aerodynamic down-force enhancements:
Rear under-body air diffuser;
Full flat under body;
Functional rear deck-lid spoiler;
21-inch centre-lock alloy wheels;
Unique design Kumho high-performance semi-slick tyres;
High-performance Brembo brake hardware with ducted air cooling for front callipers;
Side-exiting chambered exhaust system with billet alloy tips;
Unique design LED tail lamps;
Exterior mirrors with integral LED side markers.
Interior:
V8-Supercar inspired ****pit layout for enhanced driver visibility and spaciousness;
LCD sports instrument cluster located in a unique column-mounted binnacle;
One-piece carbon fiber bucket seats, featuring unique suede-pad design and distinctive red high shine leather accents;
Front seats are adjustable fore-aft and allow easy access to rear;
Four-point race harness restraints for all seating positions;
Unique sports-inspired flat-bottom steering wheel with integrated shift light display and suede grips;
Unique interior details including air vents, column switches, gear shift **** and pedals.
Interior trim
Perforated leather trimmed instrument panel;
Black suede trimmed pillars, headliner and parcel shelf;
High gloss carbon fiber used as a structural material for seats, doors and rear trim provides contrast to leather and suede trim;
Details and accents are picked out with red high shine leather, a dark gunmetal finish and satin chrome.
GM Holden in 2008
2008 is a diamond year for GM Holden which will be recognising a number of key anniversaries. These include: the 60 th anniversary of Australia's Own Car – the 48-215; the 50th anniversary of the founding of Holden Vehicle Operations at Elizabeth; 40 years since the introduction of Monaro; 30 years of the Commodore nameplate; and the General Motors centennial.
Main Features:
Pillarless coupe body;
Derived from flexible GRWD platform;
VE sedan wheelbase.
Powertrain:
6.0L V8 with Active Fuel Management, calibrated for E85 Ethanol fuel;
6-speed manual transmission (SS specification);
Engine oil cooler.
Exterior:
Unique "Diamond Silver" paint colour;
Electrically dropping front & rear side windows;
Racing-derived aerodynamic down-force enhancements:
Rear under-body air diffuser;
Full flat under body;
Functional rear deck-lid spoiler;
21-inch centre-lock alloy wheels;
Unique design Kumho high-performance semi-slick tyres;
High-performance Brembo brake hardware with ducted air cooling for front callipers;
Side-exiting chambered exhaust system with billet alloy tips;
Unique design LED tail lamps;
Exterior mirrors with integral LED side markers.
Interior:
V8-Supercar inspired ****pit layout for enhanced driver visibility and spaciousness;
LCD sports instrument cluster located in a unique column-mounted binnacle;
One-piece carbon fiber bucket seats, featuring unique suede-pad design and distinctive red high shine leather accents;
Front seats are adjustable fore-aft and allow easy access to rear;
Four-point race harness restraints for all seating positions;
Unique sports-inspired flat-bottom steering wheel with integrated shift light display and suede grips;
Unique interior details including air vents, column switches, gear shift **** and pedals.
Interior trim
Perforated leather trimmed instrument panel;
Black suede trimmed pillars, headliner and parcel shelf;
High gloss carbon fiber used as a structural material for seats, doors and rear trim provides contrast to leather and suede trim;
Details and accents are picked out with red high shine leather, a dark gunmetal finish and satin chrome.
GM Holden in 2008
2008 is a diamond year for GM Holden which will be recognising a number of key anniversaries. These include: the 60 th anniversary of Australia's Own Car – the 48-215; the 50th anniversary of the founding of Holden Vehicle Operations at Elizabeth; 40 years since the introduction of Monaro; 30 years of the Commodore nameplate; and the General Motors centennial.
#52
03-09-2008, 10:35 PM
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#53
03-09-2008, 11:48 PM
If your going to make big *** pictures so its a pain in the *** to read the thread, maybe you should make sure its a ford.I'm sure that car will be staring in the next fast and the furious, now where is that barf smiley
The lightnings ground effects look less added on then that turd.
Last edited by sonic blue l; 03-09-2008 at 11:51 PM.
#55
03-10-2008, 09:27 PM
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Pillarless shows up 95% of the time in concepts. By the time the NHTSA gets ahold of teh damn things they have B pillars that look like the Washington monument.
As for the race, from a Dig I think you'll be good. My girl has an LS1 goat and my 6# setup on the Lightning would work her from a stop. At a 45 punch she would just walk..walk...gone.. on me.
As for the race, from a Dig I think you'll be good. My girl has an LS1 goat and my 6# setup on the Lightning would work her from a stop. At a 45 punch she would just walk..walk...gone.. on me.
#56
03-11-2008, 02:11 AM
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