it may be related to you using 20w40 instead of 5w20...

 

I will venture to say that the oil fed mechanicals on these engines should NOT change in VIBRATION or SOUND after first properly done oil change. A easy test/profile is to take one of our members new L's (no first oil change yet) and set up acoutic 'mikes' at various points on the engine before the first oil change and during first startup after 1st oil change. This would at least help isolate the ORIGIN of the problem. For basic engine oil lubed mechanical sounds to signicantly change or deviate from the original is from an engineering view troubling. Engines do of course make unique sounds BUT we are talking about a sound and probably vibration deviation simply due to an oil change...hmmm. I suspect that the real Ford line mechanics or anyone from SVT R&D would known exactly WHY this is happening and what exactly precipates it. These are expensive engines and the meaning of this is known by someone
within the Ford empire...and we all know how Ford deals with problems...don't we ?!
As a further note...when this type event occurs it means that the "noise" dampening qualities of the factory oil are different than what we use or POSSIBLY when we have done our first oil change...something has "changed" or been "altered" within the engine to bring about this consistant or inconsistant rattle.....the quest for answers begins.

 

I was joking about the 40 wt., but it seems that there is something going on with the first oil change.

My 00' had the noise from the very first start-up, and to this day, still does it. I currently have 32k, and haven't noticed any change. My dealer has agreed to do a cold start with me present, so the tech's can hear it.

The first time I took it in, they "could not duplicate the problem".
They must have been deaf. This time they will not be able to deny it. I just want to document the problem, so that there may be recourse down the road, if the thing windows the block and I need a new bullet.

 

ttt

 

Does anybody have a shop manual for a 99 or later Lightning yet?
I'm curious to know what the piston/cylinder clearance tolerances are compared to a regular 5.4 with cast pistons.

I've done a lot of work building hot rod outboard motors. Minimum clearance on the motors I've done is .002 with a cast piston. However, using forged pistons there needs to be at least .005 to allow for the extra expansion. I know this subject has been covered here before.

A little piston slap doesn't bother me at start up. I don't like what DJC has going on with his after it has warmed up.

What Georgia Moon and DB have experienced is weird...made the slap after the first oil change...slapped a while, then gone...using the same oil and filter....hmmmmm...Maybe they slapped so much they slapped the oil grooves on the sides of the piston skirts flat? Or at least changed their shape some. Maybe now they trap the thin oil against the cylinder wall instead of slicing through it.

Ga Moon, while you have your acoustical mikes out maybe you can do a sound transmission test on 5w20 vs 10w40. Maybe the pistons were slapping with the factory oil but we couldn't hear it because the factory oil doesn't transmit sound as well.

Yeahh...thats it, I'm gonna pick up a pint of STP soundproofing at Wally World.........

This is interesting to say the least. I'm gonna try Mobil 1 5w30 next oil change unless mine mysteriously goes away.

Good luck to all,

JR

 

JohnRude,

according to my shop manual, the piston clearance on the lightning pistons is, get this, .0009" to .002". Isn't that a little tight for forged pistons? If they were that tight, you would not hear any slapping. If anything, you might hear it seize up.

 

Now you guys got me freaked out, i'm going to do my 3rd oil change this weekend (6000mi). Do i stick with the 5w-20w or go to a thicker weight ?
I have zero noise at startup.

FRITZ, Stock Silver 2001 "L"

 

I would say if you do not have any noise, stick with what is working.

 

Jay,

I bought TRW forged pistons for my Vette engine. The spec sheet called for .0015" at the skirt. I couldn't believe it and my old machinist buddy said that's about right on newer forged slugs. He said the older forged pistons had to be set up at about .005" - .006". Another speed shop said even the new ones required .005" - .006". So I decided to call TRW and ask if the .0015" was a typo. They said no and I went with it. It was the most solid small block I have ever heard when I got done. It was perfect.

I think the reason some of us are hearing this noise after the first oil change is due to the fact the engine does run dry for a few seconds until it fills the passages and oil cooler lines, even with a pre-filled filter. The pump still has to pick it up first too which takes a couple of seconds. This in turn might be scuffing the Teflon/plastic anti-friction material on the piston skirts which increases the bore clearance somewhat. The Teflon can be seen in the sales literature on the engine page. Remember when Sal posted that his "scuffed" off? My .02 and I guess there's not much I can do about it now.

Jim

 

Jim, I've used TRW's also. They were an older style, and called for .003 to .005" clearance. It's king of funny though, they are not noisy at all. I have Ross pistons in one of my engines, and they rattle significantly until they are up to running temp.

Normally, an oil change shouldn't affect lubrication on the cylinder walls. They pretty much rely on splash for lubrication.

I agree with you , I think it definitely has something to do with the coating. Also, in your (hehe) shop manual, it lists 3 "grades" of cylinder sizes in the spec sheet. I assume these grades are picked after machining, based on the finished size of the cyl. walls.

 

welp took it in to the dealer a week from monday...
SA had service manager come listen. of course he said it sounded 'normal'. obviously unhappy with his parking spot diagnosis, i asked that a tech look at it. tech agreed it was normal also...

im gettin rather upset over this. it wasn't there prior to the oil change, so as far as i am concerned its NOT NORMAL.

really killed the 'new car feeling' to pull in a parking space between two cars and hear the rattle clank sound of a diesel engine...

i called svt, spoke to quentin. he has 'not heard of this problem' before and said to have the dealer call svt tech line next time it is in.

so my plan is to have the vehicle in for the next oil change and have them call svt.

this stinks

 

Well people, I just did my first oil change @ 1658 miles. I used Valvoline 5w-30 and Ford Motorcraft's stock oil filter. I did everything correctly and have changed my oil MANY times before in my other cars. As soon as I started her up, instantly heard the ping of death I'm hoping it will be gone tomorrow, but from readin' everyone's posts, sounds like it's here to stay? Any solutions are greatfull

worried/upset/pissed/hopefull,
Ian

P.S. I'm changing to Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic 5w-30 formula at 3k, so if this doesn't clear itself up, hopefully that will!

 

When I took mine to the dealer to have my knock documented, they told me it was normal and that they couldn't pinpoint a cylinder it was coming from (said if they could, then they would do something). Mine dissappears after warm up but it wasn't there when it was new. Wonder if that teflon coating is there to prevent a prospective buyer from hearing something.

Mark

 

Ak, I don't think so, because not everyone experiences this problem..

 

or if it makes any relevance but Ford is now putting the 820 in a red box and it comes with a "new" silicone valve vs whatever the stock one was. I wonder if using the older filter in the white box would help? Maybe there is something there internally. I'm curious.