Got my Hotchkis lowering springs installed last week.

First off a big thanks to Jim and Shaun at JDM, Spike and RobG and Ruslow for advice.

Now for the problem. I got my alignment done today and gave them the specs. Honestly I don't think they follow the specs I gave them, and now the truck pulls to the right when I have the steering wheel dead center.

Below is scanned printout of the alignment, and the handwriting at the bottom was the specs I brought in. Do I have a right to go back and make a big fuss and hand out many B*****SLAPS

 

captain,

It looks like they didn't do the alignment to your specs that you gave them. I would call and ask why the specs were not used and if they said they used them, then say, "Why isn't the "Actual" number at the spec that I gave you?"

I would take it back!!!

 

I have the Hotchkis full meal deal. Took my own specs to the alignment shop and they were able to do it to my numbers. Take it back or find a new shop.

 

Cap'

Are you saying that the (1) truck pulls to the right when you let go of the steering wheel, or (2) trunk pulls to the right when you hold the steering wheels perfectly centered (but does no pull when you let go of the steering wheel - it's just not centered)?

If (2)... that's not an alignment problem, the steering wheels just wasn't perfectly centered when they tighted everything back up. Easy to fix.

If (1)... that's an alignment problem - the pull could be in the suspension or in the tires. Did it pull to the right before the suspension, even a little. If so, the tires have got a pull in them now, and an alignment wont fix that - and some have reported more of a pull after lowering (and perfect alignment). If the trunk did not pull at all or you have new tires... then it's the alignment #'s.

FWI... usually the alignment numbers aren't perfect... they are +/- a little... they adjust it perfect and just tightening everything up move them off a little. It takes a lot of time (or luck) to get every number dead on. It's obvious then didn't ignore your spec's... just didn't take the time to get it perfect...

 

Silver-Bolt: what specs did you use? The ones I got were from Spike and Ruslow:
Camber - Left: -0.2, Right: -0.2
Caster - Left: 6.1, Right: -6.4
Toe - Left: 0.02, Right: 0.01
Cross Camber: -0.2
Cross Caster: -0.4
Total Toe: 0.04


Dreamin - to answer your question, both. If I hold the wheel center the truck drifts to the right. If I let go of the wheel the truck drifts to the right and you can see the wheel actually turn clockwise.

The truck has always driven straight, even in the time between I lowered it and got the alignment done the truck drove straight.

I seriously think it's because they screwed up the alignment.

 

I know everybody always wants to jump all over a shop for doing something wrong, but the alignment printout that they gave you shows that they did the alignment almost EXACTLY to the specs that you gave them as far as I can see with the small exception of caster which is still right on the money and isn't going to cause a problem anyway.

I'm not saying that they didn't make a mistake on your alignment, but they didn't totally screw it up either, and we all know that mistakes happen to everybody...

so you mainly need to look at the two top boxes, and also the middle box if something was wrong there, but it looks great.

you asked for .2 degrees of negative camber which is exactly what you got both left and right.

you asked for 6.1 (left) and 6.4 (right) degrees of caster, instead they gave you 6.9 (left) and 7.3 (right) which is still right within specs. This measurement will have an effect on how the truck "feels" when it steers, how solid and straight tracking the vehicle is and how much effort is required to turn the wheel. The point is that yours is just fine and the cross caster (middle box) of .4 degrees is almost exactly the same as the .3 (6.4-6.1=.3) that you asked for. If caster is set up dead even on both sides (ie. 6.4 left and 6.4 right) then your truck would follow any crown on the road. most secondary roads have a crown in the middle meaning that the road is higher in the center (maybe so the water runs off when it rains?). If you have even caster then the truck would be trying to follow the crown or go to the right side (lower side) of the road. Normally an alignment is performed with about 1/2 degree less caster on the left hand side to compensate for this. Personally I set my truck up dead even, because not all roads crown the same way, highways are different than secondary roads etc. So my truck goes straight on perfectly flat roads, but it will drift on crowned roads if I don't hold the wheel. That is just how I like it, but not usually how alignments are set up. enough about caster...

you asked for .04 total toe (.02 per side) which is a gnats hair from what you got at .05, this isn't enough to make a difference.

All in all they did a VERY GOOD job of giving you what you wanted.

I suspect that your steering wheel wasn't perfectly straight when the toe in was set. This is an easy mistake to make because the alignment man has to get into the car and "eyeball" the steering wheel straight, then lock it in with a tool between the seat and the wheel (also between the tech's legs if he is sitting in the seat properly) and then climb out without moving the wheel. Also, turning on the tie rod ends to adjust the toe can sometimes move the wheel slightly.

They should have taken a test drive however and made sure that the alignment came out right, maybe they were in a rush for whatever reason, and maybe the road that they drove on had a crown that affected the tracking of the truck. who knows, you should take it back and ask the alignment guy to set it up on the rack again and check the steering wheel for center. you could also ask to go for a ride with him to show him what your problem is. The main thing is that he/she did a pretty darn good job so don't go in yelling about how they screwed your truck up and didn't align it right, it's easier to be nice and get what you want then to be rude and get everybody mad at you. I know sometimes you do have to let 'em have it though .

also, a side note, you could have a radial tire pull that could have been masked by something in your previous alignment settings and has appeared now that your truck is ligned up properly. this is easy to check for though, just swap the front tires side to side, if the truck now pulls in the opposite direction, then you have found your problem with one of your tires, age doesn't matter, new tires can do this too.

still, I'd bet my money that the wheel was slightly off center when the final toe was set.

also don't forget the easy stuff, check your tire pressure!!!


sorry so long, I get carried away sometimes

hope this helps.

later,
chris haynie

 

chris - your right about the specs, but they should have noticed it pulled to the right. It's not like it's barely noticeable. And I know they test drove it afterword, I heard them break the tires loose. I didn't say anything about them *testing* it on a test drive, but this is something they should have picked up. I know I should have went back right after I noticed it pulled to the right, but I was heated so I'm going back tomorrow night when the voice and words from my mouth will be calmer. Your 100% right when you said don't go in yelling about how they screwed your truck up and didn't align it right, it's easier to be nice and get what you want then to be rude and get everybody mad at you

they added air to my tires also, before I had the back with a little less air then the front (did that for handling), so I wouldn't say it's tire pressure.

 

good luck, I hope you get it all worked out to your satisfaction.

i'm pretty sure it just needs a little adjustment.

later,
chris

 

Okay now for my thoughts on the hotchkis front and rear springs.

The height in the front is perfect, the height in the rear is a little lower then I expected. It doesn't keep that factory rake look which I liked, but the overal stance is impressive.

The ride quality is a little stiff and harsh, noticable over stock. I will definately try the custom valved shocks when they come out. Driving on the highway is improved, the truck feels more solid and stable even at 90mph, which I enjoyed those short sprints.

The rear springs by themselves seemed to plant the rear wheels harder on launching.

Slowly I've been taking corners harder and everytime the back end seems to grab the road pretty good.

Some bumps aren't comfortable though and can get the butt a little jumpy.

Not sure if I need the new swaybars yet.

It's kindoff nice the rearend is lower, easy to throw stuff in the bed Plus the lowered height helps grandma get in the truck easier.

 

Hey Captn, we need to hookup again so I can eyeball your truck with the kit in it. Who did the work and how many $, as I have been wanting to do also. Thanx

 

First thing to check when you go back is radial tire pull. Make sure pressure is equal on both sides.

Have them swap the front tires. Even though they're directional, it won't hurt for a couple easy miles. My guess is that the truck will pull in the other direction.

Also, I've been talking with Koni and Bilstien regarding shocks. I'm hoping to get some info on rebuildable shocks and will email you when I know more.

Spike

BTW, did you get the panhard bar on yet?

 

Spike - I'm gonna give that a shot when I get home before I go back. The more ideas I have and what I know will help out.

I haven't installed the panhard bar yet, actually I got the one plate mounted but I haven't lifted the bed to drill yet. I should have it done by this weekend.

I do think shocks are gonna be a nice improvement with this kit. So far I don't feel that I need the Hotchkis swaybars, the stock seem to do fine enough. I'll know when I install the panhard bar if I really need them or not.


Thanks for all the replies everyone, it was greatly appreciated.

 

The truck drives straigh now when I hold the wheel straight, yahooooo. Thanks for all the help everyone. Heres the new printout from what they fixed:

 

I saw that your thrust angle on the rear is not straight. If you were to drag race and leave the line hard you would end up in the wall because the rear is trying to steer the vehicle too. Loosn up the one side of the u bolts that hold the rear axle located to the spring and take a block of wood and a 5 lb hammmer and hit it forward and back ward a few times then hit it forward and tighten the u blots up that should help with the thrust angle.
It will also make the truck handle equelly thru the turns.Stan

 

Thanks Stan---I just learned something about rear-wheel drive vehicles that I didn't know. 'ppreciate that.

Dan