No, I don't have new facts, but that is what I'm looking for.

So far in my searches for information about the new larger blowers hitting the market, I can only find a bunch of miss-information and bickering and name calling.

I'd love to see any info on the Kenne Bell and the Works as these are the main two we've been hearing RUMORS about, but I'm certainly interested in info about any other upgrade blowers that are scheduled to be released in the near future (next 6-8 months?).

Here are a few questions I'd like answered if anyone knows...

1. What are the design differences between the new blowers that would IN THEORY or REALITY make one better than the other? (rotor design, case design, rear vs top entry, or anything else important).

2. What are the intended operating RPM's for these blowers? and how much boost does that translate to on a motor w/ stock heads etc. (I believe that Don's Bolt was told his blower was drastically overspun? what pullies was he running/how much boost and what would have been the acceptable max?)

3. Why do I keep hearing how great blower A is versus blower B and then on BOTH sides I hear that the blowers being tested now aren't the ones that are going to be released??? the blowers coming out will be bigger/better?

4. What size are the blowers going to actually be that end up being released to the public?

5. How much $$$ money are these kits going to cost and are they going to be complete kits with everything needed for install, or just blower units?

6. Are they going to be BOLT ON WITHOUT other MODIFICATION TO THE TRUCK like I've heard the KB advertised as being or will other modifications be required? (intake or firewall etc?)

7. Will it be possible to convert the truck back to STOCK for resale or warranty concerns without visible signs of modification?

8. Do these blowers REQUIRE the use of a cowl hood?

9. How much HP/TQ gain should we see on an otherwise stock or close to stock truck in AS SHIPPED FORM? meaning without more pulley upgrades for more boost, and how much boost should we see AS SHIPPED?

10. Is one blower more efficient (I guess I'd measure this in less heated air charge given same amount of boost) than the other, and DOES IT REALLY matter with as effective as our intercoolers are?

11. This should have probably been #1, but exactly how many different blowers are being developed right now, and by who, and who is going to be selling them?

12. Do these blowers REQUIRE upgraded fuel systems?

13. Is a truck still going to be DAILY DRIVEABLE with 20whatever lbs of boost?

14. When are they going to be available to the public?

15. With all of this development supposedly going on, why all the secrecy? where are the numbers (HP, TQ, BOOST, TEMP, ET, MPH)

16. What type of warranty (if any) is going to be offered with these products? will it be just from the manufacturer, or also by the seller? I have heard horror stories about the blown Magnussen and I have dealt with Kenne Bell's products and tech line before, can any of them be depended upon with my $33,000 truck?

anyway, I guess thats enough for now, I'm sure there are plenty more, but I can't think anymore, my head hurts.

later,
chris

DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT HAVE ANY HIDDEN AGENDA. I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANYBODY. I HAVE MET, RACED WITH, AND PURCHASED ITEMS FROM Johnny,Sal,&Jim. I AM NOT BIASED IN ANY WAY. I AM NOT TRYING TO STIR UP CHIT, I JUST WANT SOME FACTUAL INFO WITH WHICH TO TRY TO MAKE PLANS FOR MY FUTURE SPENDING.

link to duplicate post/thread on svtperformance: http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...642#post194642

link to duplicate post/thread on nloc: http://www.nloc.net/forum/showthread...threadid=29976

 

Here are pics of the 2 units

the 2.0 KB


the 2.3 Works Whipple


They do look a lot alike, they are both made in Europe
When the KB comes out it will be a 2.3 and it will have a new rotor design than the 2.0. I think the reason KB upped the displacement has alot to do with the works unit.

I talked to a engineer at Whipple and asked them if there is a big differance between the 2.3 top entry and the 2.3 rear entry Whipple. I was told their would be very little performance differance between the flow numbers.

I have been told a few differant things about the rotors on the two blowers, untill we see what rotors the KB has on them I can't say which is going to be better

As far as RPM's go both the Whipple and the KB should be able to handle any pulley combo we can throw at them. Since both are a true twin screw the rotors will never hit each other or the housing.

As far as upgrading the fuel systems I am sure either one will require upgraded fuel pumps, and maybee bigger injectors. You will be able to take either blower off, and re install the stock blower in about 30-40 minutes. Trust me it is easy to remove a blower.

I am sure they will perform pritty close to each other.

 

well, then what happened to yours?

I thought I read that they told you it had been "drastically overspun" and that the rpm limit was something like 14K? It looked like the housing had actually gotten so hot that it melted the paint off?

not attacking, just wondering.

thanks,
chris

p.s. BTW, thanks for the pictures, I take it thats JL's KB and your (or Sal's?) Works?

 

Don if they are pretty close, why are you chosing the Works Whipple? .. ...and are you saying that a rear load blower has no advantage over a top loader? Where you talking to a sales guy or an engineer?

and.... superfords..Don previous blower was not a twin screw whipple. It was a roots Eaton/Magnuson.

 

Chris, hold tight, I have been working on a reply to this post for over an hour, and will have it up soon. I wanted to contact some people first to make sure all of my info is proper....

 

ok, what is an Eaton/Magnuson? and how is it different than our factory Eaton?

I was under the impression that Don's blower had an entirely different housing that some said was weaker and couldn't handle the rpms, and also that his rotors were too tight or something to that effect.

Sal: thanks for your time and effort, I'm eagerly awaiting your reply, I'm sure we'll all very interested to see what you have to say.

 

Don had teh Works 110 which is based off of an Eaton ... The 140 is a Whipplecharger...

Dan

 

ahh, I see.

So then forgive a stupid question, but what is a Whipple?

is that a brand name of a different blower manufacturer, or is it the name describing a different style/design of rotors?

 

The Eaton is a Roots type blower, the Whipple or Kenny Bell are a twin scew type of blower.

Read about the differances here

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/whyawhipple.html

 

I believe the Lysholm screw is imported by whipple and the Autorotor is imported by Kenne-Bell.

And further more I thought I read in another post that the KB would be upped in displacement to 2.2 liters or 134.25 cu. inches.

The last time I saw KB advertise something like this, they didn't actually increase the displacement of the blower, but just made the inlet bigger.
Dale

 

It looks like the whipple's run cooler - this has to be a serious improvement over an 'overspun eaton'....... But it doesn't make alot of sense to me why it would run cooler.......

Also, what does a whipple/works/kb blower sound like?

 

Chris, I will try to answer as many of your questions as possible to the best of my knowledge, because I respect you, and know your questions are genuine. I all honesty though, I've covered most of what you're asking in previous posts.

1. The Works 140 kit uses a 140 ci (2300 cc) rear inlet Whipple twin screwcharger. A screwcharger is an axial blower, which means the air is taken in at the rear of the rotors, compressed FORWARD as the screws spin, and discharged out the bottom front of the case. By using the rear inlet case, air is ingested at the proper part of the rotors.

The KB is currently a 120 ci (2000 cc) and the new one is going to be a 134 ci (2200 ci) top inlet twin screwcharger. The top inlet takes air from the top of the case. It's still taking air in at the rear of the rotors, but since it's coming in the top, the air gets "paddled" as it enters the case, and hits the spinning rotors. It still works, but is less efficient and rasies inlet temps a bit. Even Jim Bell admits that the top inlet is down over 10% over a rear inlet.

Lysholm invented the screw blower, so we
think it is safe to say they know more about how to build them than others.
Additionally, in 1998 Eaton Corporation obtained license from Lysholm to build
screw compressors. Eaton has shared much of their technology pertaining to
building reliable and efficient automotive superchargers with Lysholm. As a
result, Lysholms (Whipples) now use Eaton bearings, shafts, and gears. This
makes us feel comfortable about the unit, since Eaton spent millions of dollars
developing reliable bearings and gear tooth profiles during the inception of
Eaton's supercharger division.

The auto manufacturers must feel the same way
we do, because some are gearing up to use these Lysholm-based Eatons on
production vehicles in the near future. Mercury Marine is already on board,
and now so are Saleen, Comptech, and others. From what we've seen on the new
GT-40, Ford is getting involved too. Through Eaton's involvement these
superchargers are QS-9000 certified (QS-9000 is the common supplier quality
standard for DaimlerChrysler Corporation, Ford Motor Company, and General
Motors Corporation). According to Autorotor's website the Autorotors are not
QS-certifiable.

As far as the connection between Autorotor, Lysholm, and Whipple: Mr. Alf
Lysholm invented the screw supercharger many years ago. Lysholm company today
still owns the rights to the design. Whipple imports true Lysholm
superchargers. Autorotor builds their superchargers under license from
Lysholm. Kenne/Bell imports Autorotors.

2. Whipple claims the 140 can handle 20k rpms no problem. On our trucks, 20k rpms at 5700 engine rpms is just over 30 psi . BTW, that's with the same pulley configuration used on the KB to produce 21.6 psi. The Works 201 kit coming out in the future, will produce 29 psi with stock Lightning size pulleys, at only 14,500 rpms!! I have spun the Works 112 kit on my truck well over 22k rpms with zero problems. There really isn't a specific rpm that Eaton and Magnuson set for a "max" rating. There is that 14k number, but that was theoretical data figured up preproduction to the Eaton M112 being built, and not actual tested data. The 112 can handle just shy of 20 psi, just like our Eatons do, but were also only "rated" for 14k rpms, and niether the MP112 or the M112 were designed for that rpm or boost.

3. Works is not coming out with a “different” blower than is being tested. It was the original intention to produce both a Street blower kit (the 112) and a more hardcore Race type blower kit (the 140). The Works 112 kits are already being sold and on customers trucks. The 140 kits are in the final stages of production and will be released as they are currently being tested. The Works 201 kit was just an added bonus that Works decided to use such a monster blower, and will most likely be a track only type blower. The Works 112, 140, and 201's will still be 112, 140, and 201 cid. I really can’t comment on the KB displacement change.

4. From Works: 112, 140, 201. From KB: 120, 134. Both numbers are as of right now.

5. The Works kits are complete kits. The Works 112 is currently $3500. The Works 140 kit’s estimated retail is about $4000, but the final price may be a bit higher or lower, depending on how the production finalizes on the kit. The Works kits come with a specially designed Works high flow inlet casting, which is a key part of the performance increase of the full kit, over just using a different blower and the stock intake.

6. While some of the early Works 112 kits required some clearancing for the intake casting on some trucks (depending on how far forward or back Ford put the cab on the frame), the current production intakes have been revised to address this issue. Both the Works 112 and the Works 140 kits have been redesigned for maximum firewall clearance, while still maintaining the proper size and shape for intake air flow. The only other clearance issue that may need to be dealt with, is when using an aftermarket hood, because some of them sit much deeper into the engine bay than stock. I can’t comment on the KBs fit or needed alterations, ad I honestly don’t know.

7. I see no reason why not, with any kit.

8. The Works kits do not require a special hood. However, as stated in answer number 6, some aftermarket hoods may need slight modification to clear the intake.

9. A Works 140 kit installed on a customers truck made over 500 rwhp on a stock motor with the usual bolt ons. He actually had to downgrade his pulleys by removing his 6 lb lower and put a 2lb lower back on, and go to a larger 3 inch upper to drop the boost level to 20 psi with the stock motor.

10. The design of rear inlet Whipple is more efficient than a top inlet, for the reasons outlined in answer 1. It does make a difference, even though our intercoolers work very well. As you increase airflow past the intercooler, it will remove less and less heat from the intake charge. If you are using a more efficient blower to begin with, the intake charge stays lower, and than means more hp to the wheels.

11. Um, well, I’m not going to get TOO far into this one. Obviously Works has 3 kits, 2 of them on running vehicles, the third in development. KB has the 2.0, and the upcoming 2.2. That’s all I’m saying on this one.

12. So far the 140 kit moves so much air that it’s taxing the limits of the stock MAF and fuel system, even with the upgraded 255 pumps. I will know better once I’ve got a 140 on my truck, and can see what’s going on first hand. I am currently working with Works and my 140 customer to iron out the fuel and MAF issues. Since the KB since the KB should be able to produce close to the same amount of airflow , I would expect the same for KB customers, after all, air is air, the blower brand shouldn’t matter.

13. The Works 112 kit should have the same exact habits as the stock Eaton, although with improved low rpm torque. The Works 140 kit is installed on two customer trucks in CA, running 17 and 20 psi on CA pump gas, and are having NO ill side effects.

14. The Works 112 is available now, and the 140s are in final production. The KB release dates keep getting pushed back, but are supposed to be released soon. I’m not knocking that JL says he’s got them on the way, but I’d rather believe it when I see them.

15. Works is not keeping anything secret, and both Works and myself have been quite open about new information about the Works kits. After all, posting some new pics and info on the Works 140 is what started this whole mess. As for why KB changes the story in the article and keeps some stuff secret, you’ll have to ask them.

16. Warranties are always a gray subject, just like with bringing your truck to Ford. The company that you are dealing with the important thing. Works offers a 3 year warranty on all Works parts, and the blower manufacturers offer a 1 year warranty. Works are great people and easy to deal with. So are the current Works distributors. KB, has a known reputation for their horrible customer service, though some people say they have had no probs. Still, there are tons of people who have major beef. You can find thousands of posts all over the net about KB service. Here is one I found doing a quicky search just now : http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/sho...hreadid=59842. However, the one thing KB has on their side is having someone like JL as a distributor. Personally, I’d feel MUCH better buying a KB from JL, than going to KB direct, because I know JL takes care of his customers.


I hope this post answers most of the questions. I just spent over 3 hours writing this post, and contacted several people involved with both blowers in order to obtain the most correct information that I could. I would like to think that the time I spent on this post was informative, and not just more fuel for the people with the big chips on their shoulders.

Holy cow, my brain hurts.

 

Damn... now my brain hurts too. Nice post Sal!

 

Okay completely off topic, but which aftermarket hoods have less clearance then the stock hood??

 

Well I'm sold. Sal that was a great post...took me 2 beers to read instead of 1.