Are they for real? Using springs to hold axles in place sounds mickey mouse to me and not very sturdy. I am no expert though. It sounds more and more like there is not a proper option for the front end on these Fords. I didn't understand why the factory doesn't offer a LSD for the front but maybe now I am beginning to. Perhaps I should stand pat and when in the swamp make sure I have enough smash to get through the ruts and holes.

Klaibs I appreciate you talking to those folks and let us know what you do. I would like a LSD on the front of my truck but am not willing to put something in there that has potential problems written all over it, especially in street driving.

 

klaibs27,

Hold your bananas.

I got an email back from Powertrax again today, and the rep said he understood what I was asking (steering affect in 2wd) and he said -

"After reading your question again, I realized that you were asking about steering being affected in 2WD. With no power being supplied to the front differential there would be no pull to the left. With the vehicle in 2WD the No-Slip Traction System operates like an open differential, and allows full wheel differentiation without any steering limitations."

So, according to Powertrax I am wrong. I don't really understand why I am wrong, but hey, I've been in that situation hundreds of times before with women. Knock yourself with the Powertrax, super easy installation. I'd call and verbally speak with a rep (maybe I got the computer email bonehead) just to double check.

 

That sounds pretty good. What are the odds that they are wrong? I'm gonna give them a call and double check just to make sure they are telling everybody the same thing.

BTW, I couldn't find Max Mitchell's thread in transmissions on differentials and lockers, etc.,. Cpadpl had mentioned his discussions on the subject.

 

Well I just called them and I got someone from their tech line. He says that the unit will work once they get a axle retaining system designed and produced(about 3-4 months). The front axles have nothing holding them in place and they are working on a fix. This I don't understand.

I also didn't feel like I was really communicating with this guy, though. A lot of awkward silences where he should have been selling his product by informing me about it.

He said in 2wd mode that it should be unnoticeable and that when in 4wd it will "lockup" the front and that there would be no binding either. He claims it is a very strong unit and is a new design. FWIW. It's not much but I don't know if I was really communicating with this guy. Weird.

 

Well, i got a reply through email today about the Trutrac, this is what it says:

"The unit should NOT cause any steering problems although you may feel the truck "drift" to the side that is engaged because that side will drag slightly. Again, no problem in the steering. Tires are another concern. The Truetrac is limited by warranty to 32 inch tires, 35 inch tires are not recommended. The unit is also not recommended to use with the axle disconnect because of axle spline engagement, but we know Randy's has a way to fix this." - Brent Brussell @Trachtech


So this in essence has the same problem as the powertrax in that it needs to hold the axles in place. Also, look at the tire size warranty. I emailed brent back to see if he recommended anything for the front with 35" tires so I will post that when it comes around. As i stated before, Randy's way of fixing it is with some sort of spring. Just passing on the info. Eric

 

Screwdriver,

How do people post thread addresses here? Anyway, the conversation between me and Max you can pull up in the Transmissions forum by doing a search by my member name, or the title "swapout open diff for limited slip".

Thanks for calling. I was going to today but got too tied up at work. What did he mean it will work once they get an axle retaining system? Don't they already sell the Powertrax for the Ford front diff? I guess maybe they mean that will correct the possible "wobble" klaibs27 mentioned. Anyway, I understand the "lockup" he is referring to, but can't really conceptualize how it works. As I understand it, the Powertrax is a fancy Detroit with couplers and spacers to reduce backlash during re-engagement, and also to allow for full wheel differentiaion during turns. When the unit senses a speed difference, the faster side disengages and a ring keeps this side from re-engaging until speed is equal again. My assumption would be that at a stand still the unit would be "locked up", but apparently through mechanical operation when no power is supplied the rings prohibit both wheels from locking, even if speed is equal. As I said, I don't understand, and won't until someone explains it to me or hands me one to look at.

I do, however, want someone to get the Powertrax for the front, because if it works, I'd like to get one. I've got 11,000 miles until factory warranty is up. By then hopefully someone here will have gotten one.

Max Mitchell, if you are listening, maybe you could break your "code of silence" and at least explain how the Powertrax remains unlocked when no power is supplied to the front.

 

klaibs27,

Would you consider a Powertrax since it appears it will work? According to what they say, absolutely no drift while in 2wd as opposed to the "slight" drift you mentioned. Also, if they will have a fix within 3-4 months, that might offer you a little more comfort re support and warranty (i.e. I'd feel better with the manufacturer of my locker also supply the fix for the axles, not Randy's, even though I understand they are quite knowledgeable).

Also, if I understand correct, you are looking at the Truetrac which is I believe is a gear-type limited slip just like Torsen/Gleason. Although this will provide excellent on road traction capabilities, it still operates via torque bias (just like a clutch limited slip), while a locker will always spin both tires 50/50. Also, one tire off the ground or with no traction will render the Truetrac and Torsen useless (torque bias x 0 still = 0). I believe the Hummer and the newer Merecedes SUV's use electronic braking to instantaneously create the torque at the off-the-ground wheel so as to kick start the torque bias back to the other wheel.

Just a though. Why by a whole new diff carrier from TracTech when you can just by the parts from Powertrax and maybe do the installation yourself.

 

Cpadpl
Go to

http://www.powertrax.com/nsop.htm

as there is a diagram and a great explanation of the new diff they are offering. If this comes up correctly it's because I just typed it in and I have the parse url's checked. (don't know what it does, but it's checked) He stated that in 2wd mode it is transparent.

Anyhow, apparently, there is "nothing" holding the axles in place in the front diff. What this really means is anyone's guess as I haven't torn into mine at 7000 miles. I'm not sure if he refers to the current setup or it being the result of installing the new diff from powertrax.

They do offer one for our trucks, however, there is the small matter of the axles retainers. This is the frontrunner product for me once the axle retainers are engineered and available. Wouldn't do it until one manufacturer can stand behind the entire diff. Just me.

 

Cpadpl
Go to

http://www.powertrax.com/nsop.htm

as there is a diagram and a great explanation of the new diff they are offering. If this comes up correctly it's because I just typed it in and I have the parse url's checked. (don't know what it does, but it's checked) He stated that in 2wd mode it is transparent.

Anyhow, apparently, there is "nothing" holding the axles in place in the front diff. What this really means is anyone's guess as I haven't torn into mine at 7000 miles. I'm not sure if he refers to the current setup or it being the result of installing the new diff from powertrax.

They do offer one for our trucks, however, there is the small matter of the axles retainers. This is the frontrunner product for me once the axle retainers are engineered and available. Wouldn't do it until one manufacturer can stand behind the entire diff. Just me.

 

Screwdriver,

I guess it's the cross shaft forward/backward movement that allows the teeth to be unlocked when turning (or even while coasting as the webpage says), and locks the teeth only when power is provided to the diff. carrier through the front drive shaft. Very interesting. You will have to keep me informed as to the status of your purchase. As soon as they come out with the fix are you going to buy? How much do you have left on your warranty, or do you care?

Yes, I also feel this is the premiere product. I had heard of the Lock Right (the earlier version of the No-Spin) locker years ago, and in reviews they had mentioned that the product came "machined cleaner" and with better instructions than the Detroit Locker. You can't beat the price and simplicity of install. Even though I will have someone else do the front (I might have tackled the rear on my own but now I have a limited slip there), the simpler the better. And why would you want a manual ARB? Seems like the autolocking Powertrax will think faster than you will.

I also concur, wait until one manufacturer can stand behind the product. You get into functionality problems and Powertrax will blame Crazy Cooter's Axle Spring Shop and Crazy Cooter's will just plain not return your phone calls.

 

I also went to that powertrax website to read up on the operation. It looks like this option would be cheaper as well since the Tru Trac is going for anywhere from 315 to 360. I also didn't realize that the Tru Trac was simply a torque biased limited slip. You are right in the fact that you would have to use braking while on the gas to "lock up" this apparatus. As for the different housing, that has not been mentioned for the Tru Trac but if you beleive it is so cpadpl, then i will ask randy's as well as trachtech themselves. It appears that i will have to put off the gears for a while as I have run out of money for the time being. I may just buy the gears and wait to see who comes out with a retaining system and then buy that system for the front. With labor, this looks to be about a $1500 job with either device up front. Cpadpl and Screwdriver, I also found out that no gears are warrantied for tires over 32" if that. Just thought you should know. Eric

 

Klaibs27,

With anything other than the Detroit EZ and Powertrax the differential carrier (not the diff housing built into the axle house) will be changed out (this includes the TrueTrac and ARB). They are just too complicated a mechanism (especially the TrueTrac and Torsen/Gleason) to be able to modify within your existing differential carrier. That's where the need for the drivetrain mech comes in. Your old diff carrier has to be unbolted from the ring gear and the new one bolted on then and specs then checked. In the case of the rear diff (like I just had done) they also have to tap the old ABS exictor ring off the old diff carrier and onto the new one.

Powertrax and Detroit EZ simply has you remove the spider gears, remove the side gears, put in their couplers, and not put back in the spider gears. This all takes place within your existing differential carrier, and thus the carrier never gets moved off the ring gear and no specs need to be checked after installation. Some people say this is bad though (like ARB) because your stock carrier is not as strong as theirs...Whatever, I don't think I'll be doing anything so severe it will test my differential carrier.

That $1,500 seems really high. I mean, I took the wussy safe way out since I was still under warranty and had the Ford dealership swap out my open rear to a Ford limited slip, rather than get an Auburn gear or a Powertrax. All parts and labor together were probably around $800. How expensive is the Powertrax? I thought it was in the $200-$300 range. I do understand the front axle is more complicated than the rear.
I would think that Powertrax's ease of installation would offset the difficulty of dismantling the front, and the result would be parts and labor around $500-600.

One more thing, you seem to know a thing or two, why don't you find grab a mechanically inclined friend, buy the powertrax, and install the thing yourself? They say it's that easy.

 

Cpadpl and klaibs,

As far as my truck goes it has 7k on it and the warranty issue is a concern. Although I wonder if Ross-Magnusson will protect me. When I sprung for the 5.4 the idea was I wouldn't need to lower the gearing, and I don't. If I'm really needing power in the mud I can always go to the 4Lo postion, right? There's my gearing right there. This truck is plenty fast enough and I am forever hurtling up to stop lights and I hate that, very big truck with lots of inertia. So my mission is to find a reliable simple add on to enhance the traction under the front end where all the weight is and have zero(or as close to zero as I can get) effect on street handling where it spends most of its time. I already have a LSD in the rear and with the ABS ring there is no reason to drop beans into that mod. It will see occasional hard use but it will never be abused, so I don't see a reason to mod the carrier. If it was going to break it'll break anyway, it just won't be your Powertrax. There is no way I will test it like that. No rock crawling either. I really need it for certain muddy logging roads and various other scenarios. I don't really feel a need for bigger tires either, well not yet anyway. I'm trying to preserve gas mileage so I presume bigger tires(the 17 inchers are huge anyway) will hurt that.

Very likely will have a pro install it, if I can find one here in Louisville. It is a tempting challenge, though. Also, I don't want to add a bunch of switches in my cab for air compressors, etc., and I am looking for a mechanical answer. In other words, something that doesn't require my intervention to work. A piece of good engineering that is built for my truck, the Powertrax is as close as I can find so far.

Also since some of us are suggesting that the other be the "guinea pig" why don't we try to find some folks who have done this and get some feedback? More to follow, gotta go.

 

Screwdriver,

Ross-Mag. will protect you, it would just be a pain in the a$$ (can we say bad words on this website or will I get reprimanded) if something went wrong. For instance, my OEM limited slip installation was done at the Ford dealership. That voids my factory warranty if they can prove that the mod caused for instance the drive shaft to bend (I don't know how that could happen, but just for this example). However, the Ford dealership warranties its work, so they would have to fix the drive shaft. That is the whole reason I went to the Ford dealership (I know they will stand by their work warranty) and went with the OEM limited slip (so they can't claim any damage was caused by a poorly made third party product).

Now, add into the picture a non OEM mod, even assuming you use a Ford mech to install it. If something went wrong Ford factory might say its that mod that caused it, the Ford dealership mech that installed it might say it's that crappy part (we just warranty our work not crappy non Motorcraft parts), and the non-OEM mod maker (Powertrax) might say it was the dingbat Ford mech's installation that screwed it up. So now you are in between three parties trying to get one to pay for something (I'm sure you understand the Ford Motor Company and the Ford dealerships are two separate profit centers in the repair aspect). That's the situation I fear.

I concur, its tempting to install but I'll have someone do it. Had it been the rear, yes I would have installed it myself.

I concur regarding the ls in the back. Remember a locker in the rear will limit your street handling in wet weather. With the limited slip in a turn the outer wheel steel receives some torque even the inside wheel receives more. With a locker, the outside wheel is completely disengaged with no torque, if you out-torque the inside wheel in a turn you are out of control fast as it is the only wheel that "drives" in a turn. What could be better than a traction aid in the rear that has good street manners, and one up front that is undetectable in 2wd but automatically takes care of business as a locker in 4wd?

I concur re asking others, maybe a post in Other Drivetrain - "Please Reply if you have Installed a Powertrax in your Front Differential". However, I think Klaibs27 is moving forward on something soon, so he may find out for all of us. Also, I don't want to start an argument in a forum (i.e. people replying who WANT to install one or think it will or won't work - I want to hear from people who HAVE done it). There's been enough back and forth and phone calls between my previous threads with Max Mitchell and with you guys here. With your and Klaibs' assistance, I think we've pretty much resolved the issue here, we just need to talk to someone who's built the airplane we've designed on paper.

 

Well, that $1500 includes about $635 for new 4.56 US gears and install kits with Timken bearings, approximately $300 for the powertrax or Trutrac, and about $600 on install. Once I found out how much of a discount I can get on the 315 MTR's, which should be tonight if my girlfriend actually talks to her father, I'm going to get the rims and tires. I will probably drive around for a month swearing at myself because i have not power at which time i'm going to get my monthly pay. I would like to have the gears in before mid october so the powertrax will be in by that time. I think i'll go with the powertrax since it is the locker of the two and i might be able to do the install myself. If you guys want to wait for me to be the guinea pig, be my guest. I have no warrany issues since i have about 48,000 on my 99 already. You guys have been a lot of help. I posted something similar to this at the "other" board but have not gotten any replies, shows me where my home is!! I talked to a buddy of mine with a Jeep cherokee and all he had to say is good stuff about that powertrax. Once again, Thanks guys.