where is the little troll who started this thread anyways?



people just expect immediate gratification...plain and simple. They refuse to acknowledge these things take time.

 

I dont know this guy or his situation but come on guys, YES custom tunes take time but in any business you should deliver on what you promise. Im a little frustrated with getting my tuner myself(not saying from who), not because its taking too long but because i was promised several delivery dates and not delivered on those dates. Granted im not sure flaming on a board is the best way to remedy it but maybe the next guy appreciates the warning.

Bottom line, if you order something, particularly if its paid for, the company should deliver as promised, if they're consistantly not delivering as promised its time to look for help. Hell, Ive hired friends to clean my house and do laundry so i could focus on work, you do what it takes to deliver as promised or at the very least you let people know where they stand. Its just good business.

That said, warning the next guy is great, flaming for flaming's sake sucks.

Just my 2c

 

read the OP's other posts...then decide if we are flaming.

the long lead time on custom tunes is normal. Matter of fact, there is a thread on the Mustang forums right now with the exact same complaint...just the Tuner is Bamachips vice Troyer.

good tuning takes time. you want it quicker, go elsewhere. some guys in the 04-08 F-150 area here sometimes have to wait 6 months for their tunes.

 

Bamachips did my Ranger, it did take a while but they did an awesome job on it too!

F150 is the number 1 selling truck, most people here have their truck tuned by troyer or vmp or php, just imagine how many people do that dont use these forums.

 

i don't think its so much a flaming issue as a member coming on here and complaining about the time it takes for a tune from a person THEY choose! To be honest if I was still living in TX Troyer would not be a option and I would go with a reputable local tuner which is a wiser decision to be honest. I had perfect results with my truck, great customer service and I believe that Troyer considers us a extended family. I can call Anita right now and talk about anything, getting a hold of Mike is different. My wife and I spent lots of time with them, played with their dog and bull****ted for the week and I consider Troyer my tuner along with Neal and the rest of the guys as my mechanics.

 

They are very pleasent people to deal with on the phone! I enjoy talking to them as I do alot!

 

Before my truck I had a 2003 Cobra with a ported blower and a small shot of nitrous. I always did my tuning through mail order using RWTD. The tunes were always great. RWTD was doing a dyno tuning session in Chicago, IL and I decided to go and see the difference between mail order and on the dyno, since locally, we do all of our tuning on the street. I picked up 2rwhp and it cost me $400 when everything was said in done. Not worth it. So for one, with enough experience you can tune a car pretty damn close on the 1st try, and two, if their are problems, you can datalog just like they can on the dyno with the hand held and get the SAME results. You don't need to go to the dyno to get good results. Typically they are faster, but put enough time on either, you can get the EXACT SAME results.

 

I have no dog in this fight, but I'm going through a similar process at the moment. so I thought I'd share my experience.

Because Roush flashes the PCM, it's necessary to have the tuner read the new "stock" calibration and then the file must be dumped from the programmer and sent to SCT to decode and put it in a format that can be read by the SCT software.

That means the tuner has to be mailed by Troyer to you, if you're purchasing it from him. I'm not, I have an Xcal2. I have the SCT's PRP software and could have unlocked the tuner and performed the read, but he wants me to send it to him to do it. That's going to delay me two weeks or so they tell me that's how long it will take to get my Xcal2 back from them to do the blower read.

When you get the programmer in hand, a file is uploaded and the Roush code is read into the programmer, and then you return the vehicle to stock. You then need to send the programmer back to him. He then dumps the file and sends to SCT and waits for them to decode and send back to him. Now the tuning can begin.

Sounds complicated? Not really. I bought a used Xcal2, unlocked it, read the PCM and sent the code to SCT to convert it and got it back in 4 hours. I'm still getting the tune from Troyer, but with my software, I wanted to add some fuel and decrease timing at high load until I can datalog it, which I did yesterday. I've also sent the Roush file to Justin at VMP to let him tweak it.

I tend to agree with FatherFord. Troyer's salesmanship will convince you that only he can tune an F-150, but there is not that much difference in PCM code between the F-150 and a mustang. Granted, Troyer's speciality is trucks, but he also runs a full time shop. All VMP does is tune. I will give my unbiased opinion on Troyer's tune, vs. what VMP comes up with. The difference between the two tunes is Troyer will not provide his tune file so I can see what parameters he sets in the PCM. VMP has no problem providing that file to me, but I did purchase my PRP, or at least the upgrade to Advantage III, from them. I'm thinking my tune from Troyer is going to take 3 months. I'll have Justin's tweak next week. I honestly don't expect that much difference between the two.

 

Good post Windsor.

I tune using Adv3 too. I'm curious as to why you bothered with the Rousch tune at all. Could you not have loaded a custom tune from your dealer, or written one, and started datalogging?

 

This is my first boosted application, so I'm a bit intimidated by it. I figured Roush would have most of the load parameters figured out. Because they move the MAF to the air box, I knew it would need a completely different transfer function from stock. If you've ever done one of those from scratch, it's an involved process and I just don't have the time to build one.

It didn't cost anything to have them flash the PCM either since they even pre-pay to have it shipped overnight to them and they return it the same way. It's included in the cost of the kit. The PCM got back 4 days before I had it running anyway. Justin suggested doing it this way as well.

I got on it a little bit this morning and it shut down in first. I think the rev limiter is too low or the vacuum bleed is kicking in too soon. Need to start data logging and see what's going on.

 

-snip- duplicate.

 

That's the case in your situation with that vehicle but it is by no means the same for every vehicle. Also, is that because there was no more power to be had, or the tuner didn't have more tricks? Was that 2 RWHP at peak HP, or peak gain at any RPM. For instance, once I tuned a early 90s N/A Mustang that was being used for dirt track racing. It gained only 2 RWHP at peak HP, but over 40 RWHP at lower RPMs.

One thing you cannot do, unless you buy the additional hardware, is data log the wide band information, which is critical to giving the most power safely.

Without wide band logging and without the dyno, you'll never know if there are power ripples, dips or other things which point to potential problems and/or areas where there's power left on the table and, if the WOT air/fuel ratios are optimal/safe.

 

Windsor - PRP is deep and the learning curve is pretty steep, imo. I have a very helpful dealer who was doing my tuning before I started on my own and he supplied a good batch of .mtf files for me to work with. I forgot that some dealers don't provide base custom tunes.

DM - You're right. Trying to tune without a/fs is pointless. It is possible to tune on the street, as I do, but it is much more time consuming than a dyno session. Steady state datalogging is a real challenge without the dyno.

 

Onelowf.... if you don't have one already, consider something like a DashDAQ. It saves data logs to a SD flash card which you can put into your PC to view. No need to connect a tuner or lug around a lap top. It'll also connect to most wide-bands. Any time you're driving, just hit the on screen save log button and it immediately starts data logging. When that happens, it actually starts the log from 30 seconds prior to hitting the button. Its great for when you're driving and something happens you which you could have logged --- if you push the button within 30 seconds, you have it! About PRP... you ought to see the hundreds of additional parameters in calibration mode it gives over PRP mode... some of them are really nitty gritty things which often aren't going to be used.

Now, about MTF files, I'd be curious to see some of them, to see if they are truly custom (ie, how much of it is just an SCT value file tune with a few minor tweaks). The tunes I've made for my Roush have zero parameters imported from SCT value files. I've watched Mike Troyer as well.. he does the same thing. Not everyone out there does that.

 

This is exactly the mentality today. Owning a business myself, this is the way people are starting to think today. Things happen in a busy business and sometimes a customer falls between the cracks. Is it a good thing? No and it is not done on purpose. But it does happen and it always has happened in years past with businesses. But it is the way customers view things today that has changed.

If you have problem with a business, you man up and find out what the hell is going on. You don't immediately think you have ripped off and do a credit card charge back, go off into the sunset and slam them at every turn. You call them and ask what is going on. Most businesses would say.....Wow, not sure how this happened, but lets take care of this for you. And it's done.

I don't know Troyer at all. But you don't come on a message forum and slam a company you don't know anything about, based on one persons bad experience. Things happen in life and you try to work things through them and be reasonable. Then if they don't, you get mad and rightfully so. But if you don't do you part, then how can you complain.