Good evening friends,
I have a 2004 F150 SuperCrew 5.4 w/ 3.73 4x4. We recently purchased a TT that weighs 7700 lbs (dry). I know that with equipment and all the TT will be at the F150's tow limit. So what are the best suggestions for optimizing my F150 tow performance? Both suspension performance and engine performance.

From reading through the topics here i have created a list. Let me know wht you think and offer any suggestions.

Edge Evolution
Volant Cold Air Intake
Magnaflow exhaust SISO
Hellwig or Supersprings rear leaf springs
LT truck tires (i currently have the stock 20" wheels/tires)
Bilstein shocks.

Comments/suggestions? A month or so ago i read about a vendor that had a package including the Edge, Volant and Magnaflow. Does anyone recall this vendor? It may have been on FTE.

Thanks everyone. Im trying to avoid a F250 Diesel purchase if i have to, the $56k price tag is a bit steep. Although the wife has approved an F250, i really love my F150.

DT

 

You will be over 8000 dry after you figure in propane, and batteries and options. You will be well over 9000 loaded. My TT is 8500-8700 loaded. It is 9784 gross. It is 6385 dry. I have no problems towing this trailer with the mods listed below. Keep in mind that this is flat ground, I run at 65 MPH in 3rd gear with OD locked out. I get 9-13 MPG depending on headwinds. I do NOT like towing in the steep mountain passes... 7% drops the truck down to 1st or 2nd with RPM's at 4300-4500. Speed usually ranges from 25-35MPH. This is for long, steep, grades of about 9 miles. I don't think you're going to like that setup. I wouldn't want to put any more weight behind me. My next truck will be a PSD 250. For hitch gear I am running an Equal-i-zer 12,000/1200. It is probably the best hitch I have ever used. I also run a Prodigy brake controller. I have also upgraded tires to load E Coopers. Your rims are 20's so you are already at a disadvantage. I dropped 1000# with the 18's.

 

Why do people bother coming here after they spend $25k on a new RV to justify their purchase instead of properly doing the research before? You're trailer is too big for any 1/2 to tow regularly.

Listen, you can spend $4k on mods to your truck to help suspension, tires, brakes, and power. You still will be over your truck's GVWR and probably GCWR too. It will still get 8mpg towing on level ground and be in 2nd and 1st gears on big hills. All that means increased wear on your truck, a shorter life and accelerated depreciation. A new 3/4 ton truck doesn't cost $56k. At a minimum, you have a $20k asset to sell/trade in. You can get a used 3/4 ton truck or the same amount that is older with more miles, or a spend that $4k to get a V10 used of similar condition to your 04. Or if you really want new, no one pays MSRP for pickups. No one. Take $10k off, minimum. Save $7k and get the V10 vs. diesel. I just built a $43k MSRP 2007 F-250 Lariat V10 that will tow 12500 pounds with ease compared to your truck. Get that For $35k out the door and your cost delta doesn't seem too bad.

 

I agree with APT, no matter what anyone says about towing these weights with an F150, you are well beyond the limits of the truck. Get the SuperDuty - the cost diff between the 250 and 350 is nil, so I would just hit the 350 and be done with it. If you tow a lot, get the PSD rather than the V10. The PSD just doesn't work as hard, even though spec-wise they are rated pretty close.

 

You really do need to jump on that. If you buy an 08, get a V10 with the right towing options.

Is having 2 trucks out of the question? Keep yours for a daily driver and buy a used 250/350 (or even an Excursion) with a 7.3 PSD for towing duty.

 

Hey NEIGHBOR !! im glad i didnt talk to you before i purchassed anything. you probably wouldnt have listened then either. my limits are at or just below my capabilities. i have done the research and own the items you havnt and dont.

As for the other information in your post, thanks for stating the obvious. Unfortunately, the information you provided is usless to my request. We purchassed the TT we preferred and will make the vehicle change as needed.

I understand an F250/350 will perform better. I understand all to well.....

Settle down and come show me your F250 Lariat v10 when you get it.
DT

 

DT,
An 8000# trailer will put you at approx 14,000# CGVW. The weight rating on our trucks is 14,500. I know I am at the upper end if not over by a few hundred lbs. I have scaled my setup and my axle weights are within limits but the combo is not. You are already 1000# heavier than I am with your TT. Your trailers GVWR is probably in the neighborhood of 11,000# You will be over immediately if loaded with anything. I also noticed that you have a Leer Topper on your truck so you will need to deduct another 500# right off the top. Your curbweight on your truck is going to be approx 6300# with a full tank of gas and one driver. My curbweight is 5800 with a full tank and me...165lbs. Like I said above... I have towed my trailer approx 4000 miles. I have been in mountain passes and flat ground. The new body F-150 is a very capable tow vehicle but it does have its limits. I looked at a Trail Bay with a double slide. It was very nice but it was also too heavy. I opted for the same floorplan without the second slide in the bunk room. I am glad I did.

Like I said, I gave you real world experience towing a TT that is similar in length and a little lighter. If it were me... I would be opting for a 250 PSD. I would pass on the V10 because of fuel mileage for everyday driving. Add in a better resale value and it's pretty much a no brainer. My wife doesn't ride with me when towing so she doesn't realize how the truck works in the mountains. If I never went to the mountains, I would never even think about a bigger truck. This truck does a great job, but it does have limits. I told her that I wanted a 250PSD and she told me "noooooo, I like your truck" (kind of whining) I am looking for one as We speak. 04-05 Lariat, crew cab, 4x4 PSD. I would prefer Wedgewood blue because it matches the TT, but there are other colors that would work. It must be spotless, have a good service history.

 

Do not even bother upgrading your truck, like others have said. Your GVWR of your trailer is 9700 lbs from Keystone add 6000lbs of truck( with just you and fuel) your at 15700 GCW and your truck, as stated in the above post, is rated at 14,500 GCWR. 1,200 lbs overweight not including more passengers and gear in truck. Always use the GVWR of the trailer when running #'s, you would be suprised how much stuff you bring along.

I am not going to run anymore #'s by, because everyone else has done a good job. Sorry to flame you, but everyone that posted is right, it is not the performance of the vehicle, it is the weight. Now if you wanted to upgrade axles, trans, driveshafts, transfercase, leafs, shocks, coils and more you might be fine for weight.

I tow a 5,800 GVWR fifth wheel currently, I know I am overweight for the GVWR of my truck but not by much. I am now looking for a diesel after taking 5 short trips this summer. I did not listen to those on this forum, like I should have, but it turns out they are right. I had to learn on my own. I guess that is what it is going to take for you. Shoot, my truck weighs less than your being a supercab with 17" wheels and my trailer is 4,000 lbs GVWR below yours and boy does it struggle even in the flatlands of Minnesota. I also only get 9 MPG towing and it sucks filling up every 200 miles.

Listen to the replies on this forum, they are trying to help you from experience.

 

I don't believe you.

Did you buy take off 2006+ OEM 20's because 2004 Lariats came with 18" wheels. Either way, your GCWR is 14500 pounds with a theoretical trailer weight of 8700 pounds. Take the brand new RV to a scale. Measure both your axle weights on the trick and the trailer as well. Every RV weighs at least 10% more than it's manufacturer "dry weight rating" even before you add your travel stuff and fluids. So, take that 8500 pounds, add your truck, you, family, water, gas for truck and LP, toys, camping gear, food, etc and you'll be very close to the trailer's GVRW of 9700 pounds and your truck's GWVR of 7200. My guess is you'll be tipping the scales over 16000 pounds GCWR when you leave home for a long weekend. You're rear axle weight will be over 5000 pounds. See how that compares to your driver's door sticker. What research did you do before you purchased again? You looked up the theoretical 8700 pound rating for your truck and told the General RV salesperson?

I did help you. I said you can add every add-on part you listed in your OP and not raise your GVWR or GCRW one pound. All that will improve towing abilities within your truck's limits, but not raise them which is what you need to do to tow that RV legally.

BTW, I built a theoretical F250 @ www.Forddirect.com as I have no need for towing 10k pounds on a regular basis. And, what cities do I need to avoid when you are traveling until you get a new truck?

 

Yep, i know its going to be close. for 3 years i have towed a 30' 10,000# boat. not all the time and only with me and a friend to the marina. then the family met us there. most of the time it was in a slip. im not opposed to the 250 and will end up with one at some time im sure. i get A-plan and ill just keep an eye on the rebates over the fall and pick a time to make the change. i have only trailered the new TT once so a couple more trips and i may not want to deal with a 1/2 ton anymore. your right though a V10 is not the engine i want. PSD is the way to go when its time. i am very impressed with how these F150s handle HD towing, they really do well.

 

ok, this is getting out of control. maybe i was not clear in my OP. im a degreed mechanical engineer in the auto industry and can assure everyone that the research was done prior to purchassing our TT. I KNOW THAT THIS SETUP CAN SURPASS THE TOWING AND VEHICLE WEIGHT LIMITS OF THE TRUCK !!! THAT IS NOT A DEBATE HERE !!!

Im told that im not believed by somebody who claims to know more about the weight of my trailer when it has sat on scales in front of me not them -YES IT ALL HAS BEEN WEIGHED, THE LOADED TRAILER AND THE ENTIRE RIG. Its amaizing how foolish people can sound by making assumptions about stuff they dont know.

My request was not to have my rig assessed and given a thumbs up or down. i was hoping to get some feedback on some performance upgrades to help. I am not new to towing or the capabilities of my truck. But somebody who does not know me states:

"Why do people bother coming here after they spend $25k on a new RV to justify their purchase instead of properly doing the research before? You're trailer is too big for any 1/2 to tow regularly."

Did i say somewhere " Oh crap, i just bought a trailer that is too big for my truck and did not realize it, what do i do now???"

Anyways, I appreciate the responses from the individuals with towing and practical experience. Through years of my own experience I understand and can relate to your concerns. Safety is my no. 1 concern. Until the TV is upgraded, i will certainly be staying somewhat local. I guess that means sombody will have to move huh??

I am not opposed to a new truck as that was the plan when the TT was purchassed. Im not in the business of buying multiple TT's so we bought the trailer we wanted and plan to upgrade the truck in time. Until then, I only thought i could get some feedback on some performance upgrades.
I can say, its all in good fun, i hope i have not offended anyone.

So can anyone tell me how i can get my F150 to tow 12,500 lbs???

 

dpt, the problem is that people come here asking on advice how to use their overloaded F150. People get cynical because it is an everyday thing - "I tow 18,000# with my F150 and it's great." To give advice on how to exceed the manufacturer's recommendations is really asking to be sued, sooner or later.

So the correct advice really is get a truck capable of hauling the trailer, within it's recommended limits.

 

Congrats. I'm 20 and studying to be a mechanical engineer. That doesn't mean you can engineer your truck to pull more than Ford has rated it for. They rated it at that particular weight for a reason. Also, you can upgrade your springs, engine, transmission, brakes, etc, but you STILL cannot up your weight ratings. Get stopped by the police/DOT, and bend over, cause those fines are going to HURT! Also, we don't assume here. We all speak from experience. You asked for feedback and we gave it to you.

 

A degree in anything means little. My wife has a BSME, but that doesn't mean she knows what our truck limits are for towing. I've yet to see a BSME degree specializing in trailer towing. Who says I don't have a degree or what it is in. How does that affect you towing an RV that puts you over Ford's specs? How do you know any of my own experiences? This is the internet. Everyone lies. If you chose to to believe or ignore me, I really don't care.

A 10k boat is not a 10k RV. Different weight distributions and different aerodynamics. Regardless, I'd like to see the weigh station slip proving you were under all Ford's specs on that one. So, what were the weights of your loaded RV from the scale? I haven't seen one 7700 pound RV that weights 7700 pounds. I'd love to start believing RV manufacturers, but I have no proof to yet. You can start proving me wrong and maybe I'll start changing my advice. So far, everyone that I've read that has weighed their brand new RV claims 10-15% over dry rating before loading any of their personal stuff.

I'm still wondering how you have OEM 20" wheels when every 2004 F-150 Lariat came with the same 18" wheel? I think Ford brought them out for 2006 models. So, you could still buy them from Ford or another owner, but it takes away from your credibility.

Anyway, all of these ideas you originally posted are great. Each one will improve your towing experience and even everyday driving. I suggest a 4.56 gear swap instead of tuner/intake/exhast for better value. however, I don't recommend any of them, especially if you are planning to upgrade your truck in as little as 3 months. Anything aftermarket gets very little return on your investment. So, spend $2-4k on this truck today, you'll be lucky to get $500 more for your truck @ trade tomorrow. Sometimes a private sale will help with the right person, but not on average. Save that aftermarket money for the next tow vehicle, that I, admittedly, rudely suggested earlier.

When you get ready for the next TV, do more research on the V10 vs. PSD (assuming sticking with Ford). The 6.0l isn't getting nearly as good fuel economy as the old 7.3L and the issues the 6.0L has had has tainted resale value somewhat. The V10 does not get as poor fuel economy as some people think. Not great, but I've read about 14-15mpg highway unloaded. The ULSD is making it worse. I haven't heard much about the 6.4L real world fuel economy yet. The diesel vs. gas debate will go on forever. There are clear advantages for each and everyone has theire preferences. I don't know what is right for you, but using your own words, don't make assumptions. The deals right now on on the 2007 model since the 2008 models came in February of 2007, IIRC. Selection is dropping quickly.

Yes, I'm a bit cynical. I've been reading and commeting in this towing and hauling forum for years. Look at recent thread titles:

"2000 LBS of Tile in Bed of Truck? "
"Towing Overloaded?"
"whats the most you've pulled in your f-150?"

Everyone wants to push the limits of their vehicles because obviously it's cheaper than upgrading. i've done it. you've doen it, lots of people exceed Ford's limits. My personal opinion with my own experiences is that the F-150 can handle more than Ford's ratings. Occasionaly doing that for most people is fine. But purposly making a long term commitment (like buying a new RV) to regularily overload it is not wise.

 

i wouldnt go with the edge... i would check out troyer tuners.. the max or the xcal2 would be ur best bet for towing