I tow this 23 footer twice a year to the Nascar race in Dallas. I weighs 3900 lbs empty and I use no weight dist. setup. The truck tows it just fine at 65 mph with OD locked out, plenty of reserve power. I'm stock with 4X4 and 3:73 gears. Its a 500 mile round trip and it averages about 9.5-10 mpg at 65. I say go for it....you will be fine.

 

I got a 21 foot toybox they say is 4900uvw but I think that is BS. With the quads and everything else we take I would say 7k. Next time I am going to hit the scale with her. I can hold 65 in OD on flat ground but any little hill and I'm down in 3rd. One 6 hours trip we took I got 9mpg the hole way.

 

Even if you could run in OD for the majority of a 3000 mile trip, I don't think you'd see anything close to what you get towing the popup... You'll still get around 10-11 mpg towing a full sized TT, IMO.

In my experience running in OD and towing my 22', 5000# travel trailer, all you end up doing is having to press the go pedal that much more in order to hold your speed which is just dumping in more fuel, defeating the whole 'lower rpms' which lulls you into thinking you are getting 'better' mpg just because you are in OD. Then, at some point, you press the pedal far enough to trigger the computer to downshift, so you are in third anyway.

I am able to run in OD for a good amount of time (at times), and when I get gas, it's not any better in mpg then when I'm running in third and going up and down hills! Works out to around 10 mpg for the most part in my case..

I've found the best mpg gains have been in keeping my speed at around 60 mph in third gear.. The only time it downshifts is on the bigger hills and the rest of the time, it's only pulling around 2300-2400 rpms.

3000 miles @ 16 mpg is 187.5 gallons of gas. @ $3/gal, that's $562.5. 3000 miles @ 11 mpg is 272.7 gallons of gas. @ $3/gal, that's $818.18. There is no device or power adder that you can get for $255 that will make up for that.. So, it costs you an extra $255 in gas?? The convenience of a hard sided camper over a popup for that kind of trip would make that a bargain for me! It's so nice to be able to pull over at a rest stop, or wherever, and open the trailer door and have a bathroom, kitchen, bed, all ready for you to do whatever in a matter of seconds..

Setting up at the camp ground is simple too. 15-20 minutes, and I'm level, stabilized, plugged in, awning out, lounge chairs and folding table out with my butt in the chair and an ice cold beer on the table!

It's all personal preference of course. I've done the whole camping under the stars and later tents, and it was great... But, now that I'm older and like more comfort and convenience, a TT is the only way to go.. If I could afford one, I'd have a motor home, but that's not in the budget at all!

Good luck and have fun in whatever you 'camp' in!

Mitch

 

I was hoping to hear from you on this post! Your input is always so good. I see what you are saying and it makes a lot of sense. If MPG and trans temps are similar, locking out OD is undoubtedly easier on the engine; letting it spin rather than labor. And you are right, $250 in the course of a 3,000 mile towing trip is not going to break the bank.

What are the specifics of your TT? Is that a Surveyor? Or a Jayco? I'd be interested in your floorplan and evaluation of it. It doesn't look like your trailer is the "expandable" type with pivot beds and canvas. Bob

 

Do you use an Equalizer type of hitch for that trailer? Sway control?

 

Hey bob, I've noticed you around here too! And, I always like a good TT thread!

My trailer is a 2003 Prowler Lynx (Fleetwood). It's the 722F model. It has a queen size, walk around bed up front with storage under it. Dinette/kitchen in the middle and a full width bath in the rear. It's only 22' from hitch to bumper and has a GVWR of #5000. Believe me, I know I'm at that max weight too! When I first got the thing in July of 2002, I loaded it up and had it weighed. It came in at #4400 (with a 'dry' weight of #3800). Since then, the wife and I have only added to it, so I know it's got to be #5000 by now! It has lots of storage, and I've upgraded it to hold more!

I use a simple EAZ-Lift WD setup. No additional 'sway control'. I've found it to be a very solid tow. The key is to make sure you get at least 12-15% of the trailers total weight as tongue weight. I've got pass thru outside storage up front, so all the leveling and dirty stuff that can fit thru the compartment doors goes up front. I've got dual batteries and dual 20lb LP tanks (5 gal). I estimate my tongue weight to be at least #600. I use #1000 WD bars and it rides pretty good. They also bring the rear of the truck back up to original ride height, or about 2" from where it is with the tongue weight alone. I load the bed with additional tools, additional 20lb LP tank, firewood, etc for a long weekend 'camping' trip as well.

No expandable ends. It'll sleep two very comfortably, but who ever has to sleep on the dinette, better only be 5' tall! It's only the two of us anyway, so it's fine for us. We use the awning as our slide out, and spend most of our time outside when at all possible! Even when it's raining, as long as it's not 'too' windy, we will be outside, with the propane heater or propane fire pit going!! Once the wind picks up, all bets are off and it's inside with a DVD or sightseeing!

I've had no issues with this Fleetwood product. It gets bashed pretty good on RV.com for being cheaply built... Well, sure it is! They have 'millions' of the things out there... There's bound to be a few bad ones with so many rigs out there, right?? I got mine, brand spanking new for $12k in 2002... It is what it is and that's all that it is!

Mine is what I would call an 'entry level' trailer... Sure, I've had to fix this and adjust that, but nothing major at all in almost 6 years of use. I keep up it maintained and inspect it regularly, so no complaints..

Mitch

 

Bob,

I don't know where you live, but if anywhere in the midwest, it is worth looking at RV Wholesalers for some of the best prices on Roos. Think about 33% off MSRP, or around $15k for most options on a 21SS.

 

I think ALL RVs are entry level in terms of quality. I've never seen a brand of RV that doesn't seem to have numerous issues at delivery time. Our Rockwood PUP has had a number of issues. It seems endemic in the industry.

My wife would sure like to have a shower and a Microwave etc. I'm really on the fence in terms of what to do. The PUP is so easy to tow and no special equipment (e.g. hitches etc.). No tanks to empty and easy to winterize.

But the points you make for a hardside as advantages are undeniable. We're pushing 60 and there is just the two of us so we don't need a lot. Our big issue with the PUP right now is primarily lack of floor space and kind of being cramped. We are also evaluating High Wall PUPs with a slide-out. Easier to tow, some of the TT amenities such as shower, toilet, MW, a bit more floor space, etc. But there is the setup and canvas. I'm afraid that, after several years, we would be looking to upgrade again.

So I guess there is no free lunch. Just all of the trade-offs to evaluate. Perhaps we should just stick with what we have and wait until Ford offers the small diesel in the F150. It might tow that 5,000 pounds a bit easier without having to do the Super Duty thing. That doesn't appeal to me at all.

 

Bob - bottom line, towing 5000# with a F-150 with a 5.4 and 3.73's is a piece of cake. You are nowhere near limits. No need for a SD or a diesel. A V6 can even do it as long as it has the factory tow package and an auto trans.

 

Anything but a diesel will get 10mpg towing that kind of wind resistance. With ULSD, you may not get much better with diesels. A highwall + slideout would be another alternative, but up-front costs will be similar to a hybrid or even normal full-sized TT.

The thought of 50% more fuel costs for any given tow trip may be daunting ,but do the math. How many miles do you plan to tow every year? Figure out how much extra fuel that means and evaluate if it really is worth the costs.

 

by all means, an F150 can handle a #5000 TT! Mine does fine and I enjoy towing it. Some trips are so short, I wish I was still on the road!

Sure, it needs more gas, slows on the hills, I'm not first across the intersection and I run in the slow lane, but that's why I RV! We enjoy looking at the scenery as we travel. We stop when we want and I pull over if I'm holding up a car on one lane roads...

It is like you say, you have to weigh your wants and needs with what kind of RV to get. For some, the popups are great. For others, it just won't do. I give up some mpgs and have to do some extra cleaning and maintenance, but the convenience of it all makes it worth it to me and my wife. She won't go in any less, so that's 100% of the deal right there!!

Mitch

 

Exactly - if you want that TT, get it now and tow it with your 150. Later on, when it's time for a new truck, weigh the options, you may or may not want to upgrade to something heavier duty.

 

I'm glad to hear you guys saying 5,000 pounds is a piece of cake. That really makes me lean toward the TT or HTT (with some canvas). Thanks for the tip on RVWholesalers. I live in MN so it would be a little haul. But it gives you an idea what dealers can really do and a bargaining chip. So now I'm thinking Roo 21SS or 23SS. Or maybe a smaller Surveyor. Going by what you guys have experienced, these units are within TV limits. I'm thinking that I want a dry unit weight of no more than 4,000 pounds though. 3,500 would be better. And then maybe a mental adjustment of towing at 60 to 65 mph instead of 70. Now I'm kind of excited about the RV show this weekend.

 

We towed our PUP for several years with a V-6 5-speed. It did just fine. I was able to tow the pup at 70 mph in 5th and only needed to downshift for significant hills. I really like that truck (2001). Reverse is awfully fast though resulting in a lot of clutch slipping when backing the PUP. And in hilly territory, you couldn't really use the cruise control. I really miss the directness and control of that 5-speed though. And the fun factor.

 

Check out RV.net for the actual weight ratings by the newer Roo's. BrandinOhio says his 2007 7.5' wide 21SS has a dry rating of 4242#. BTW, he pulls his with an F-150. Going from 5000 pounds to 6000 pounds (travel ready) will be less of a deal for you than a from a PUP to hybrid. I bet you get the same gas mileage as wind resistance is more the issue than weight unless you plan a lot of trips to the Rockies. Floorplan would be the highest priority for me, than 500 pounds difference to go down to a 19' or so. The 21SS is huge inside, because the slide goes out more than any HTT I know of, including the 23SS.

If you are going to an RV show, compare the two Roo models (Surveyer will be the same floorplan with different colors/trim). Look for the stickers/plates with weight ratigns on each if you are really concerned. Also include Jayco 23B as it is a very popular model with U-dinnete that people either really love or hate. Starcraft also has a 21SSO model (Travelstar and Antigua twins) that has good feedback, but generally costs more.