I would suggest to all parties here to search oil libraries like that of Chevron or Unocal to understand exactly what the Ford speced 5w-20 153-H consists. I can tell you before your search that the basestocks are are refered to as UCBO's. That means UnConventional Basestock Oils. Only those basestocks that are Gp II+ and Gp III can be used. These are rightfully synthetics made from crude oil. Their Viscosity Indexs will equal any PAO basestock and pour points of -50 can be achieved. I would suggest you learn about Isomerization, Sequence IIIF testing, and the MHT -4 TEOST, all of which are required to meet the standards set by Ford. After your research, I think you will agree that the 5w-20 not only will do the job but will surpass any Xw-30 in wear metals, cleaning the engine, running cooler, and giving extended life to the Triton family of engines.

 

Labnerd-

What viscocity do you use in your truck?

 

In my 02, 4.6, you will find Motorcraft 5w-20 with a Motorcraft filter. If I could find in my area Chevron Supreme in 5w-20, that would be my oil of choice. I have privy to thousands of virgin and used oil analysis and nothing, including the the $10.00 a quart souped up, high performance, made from your grandmas underwear, synthetics has averagely beat the 5w-20 Ford approved oils under NORMAL conditions. Only time it can be beat is when conditions are such that the engine is in a state of boundary lubrication. This is not a common situation but can happen in extremes. The Castrol and Pennzoil formulations attempts to address that with the inclusion of moly. Unless the engine has had a steady diet of it though, there is not enough present to make a difference.

 

Labnerd:

First, what is it that you do for work? Do you work with oil’s etc? You seem to have some real good knowledge on the subject so I am curious is all.

Second, how well does the 5W-20 hold up and protect compared to 5W-30 under conditions other then normal like when towing? The reason I say that towing is “other then normal” is because things tend to run hotter. For instance those with automatic transmission are required to have transmission coolers to keep the fluid cooler so it does not break down and/or degrade.

Just so you know this is not intended to be taken as a swipe at your post. I am asking because if I can learn something new, and get more information the better. I would much rather make a decision based on good sound information I myself can come across then what other Ford dealers, race shops, etc may be telling me “from experience”.

Yes, I am the type that will use something that has already been proved out rather then something new until I feel I know enough to make a good judgment call on it myself. Ford, or more specific, some engineer at Ford putting something in a book does not give me that “informed” and “unbiased” information.

I see you’re an engineer as I am, I am not sure what field your in, but in mine I have seen decisions made, as I have stated before, that were not always in the “customers” best interest.

I look forward to learning more…

 

Labnerd-

Seeing as though you have a fair amount of knowledge about lubricants, what are the main benfits of running the suggested 5W-20. A lot of us have been hearing, from various sources, that the 5W-20 oil is used specifically for CAFE reasons. As Dennis has asked, can you give us some solid evidence that 5W-20 will protect better than a 5W-30 or 10W-30 in everyday conditions? What about for extreme driving situations?

I guess all of us can agree that 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30 will not cause ill effects on our engines, no matter which one we choose. I'm more of the mind that it comes down to what we are comfortable with, unless you can dissuade me into believing that using anything other than 5W-20 is harmful.

THX

 

Thanks labnerd, you pack more information in six lines that the rest of all our comments combined.

You have raised my opinion of 5w-20 oils that meet the Ford specs, Motorcraft in particular, and I already had a high opinion of it.

 

I just recently posted this on another subject, but I think it applies here as well ...

I have a choice of 14 Ford dealers in San Diego County. Here are the results of the 14 service advisors I called regarding the use of 5W-20 & 5W-30 Motor Oils.

5 Stated:
They use 5W-30 For All Years, Including 2001 - Up

5 Stated:
They use 5W-20 For 2001 - Up / 5W-30 For 2000 - Older

4 Stated:
They recommend 5W-20 For All Years, Including 2000 - Older

I heard extremes of both sides regarding this issue. From one service advisor telling me that 5W-30 is used exclusively, and they don't recommend 5W-20 due to low protection.

To another service advisor telling me that they recommend 5W-20 not just for 2001 - up engines, but any modular engines from 2000 and older due to valvetrain starvation issues with 30W!!!

Confusing? Apparently the dealerships are like the owners, with their own opinions. After checking with the Ford Motorcraft web page, here is a quote...

From the horses mouth!

_____________________________________

2000 Ford F150 XLT Supercab 4x4

2001 Acura NSX Coupe

2002 Honda RC51 Superbike

 

At least we all agree that this is splitting hairs, and that we enjoy the fine thread we get. I tend to think we have to challenge each other and split a few hairs to get some good educational information going. To that I say thanks to you all for your efforts.

I agree with most that is said, and just apply it where applicable. Ford has speced out a 5w-20 oil that is as good as if not better than most 5w-30 oils. It's not only save to run in our engies, it's a good oil choice.

If however we are heating things up towing then we would be well advised to run a 5w-30 or 10w-30, and even better to use a good quality oil at that weight.

Racing is a special application which heats everything up beyond its limits and that is why we have 20w-50 with lots of moly that gets changed in 500 mile or less.

As only labnerd and a few others here can explain, there is more to oil than it's weight.

 

greencrew:

The only thing I would add is in racing, to the best of my knowledge, and what we did with our motors as well as in Winston Cup it is a straight weight oil 50w, and not 20W-50.

The oil is warmed prior to starting the motor with and oil heater. Can be in different methods, I think the most used one is a probe down the oil dip stick tub.

 

I'll bet the racing folks can realy split a hair when it comes to oil. I've heard that the oil mfgr will sometimes specfically formulate an oil for a specific car's engine. I suppose if it can be done for one car or one engine, Ford could have it done for 800,000 trucks using three engines.

I have no racing experience, just some Bondurant training. Those cars are junked in just three years.

 

Mobil-1 10w30 with K&N oil filter user here.

 

One of the biggest reasons for the discrepancies in dealers is because of cost and availability. 5w-30 cost significantly less than 5w-20 and is more readily available in bulk. If a dealer can get by using the less costly 5w-30, then that will add more to their profits.

 

Good grief, what did I step into? This is going to be long and I will be cutting corners as your questions would merit about 2 classroom hours to answer.
In regards to towing. The 5w-20 will perform function up to an occasional tow of 5000 lbs prox. If your truck is subject to a steady diet of trailer pulling such as a contractor or a retiree pulling a travel trailer, you might want to look at a PAO basestock synthetic in 5w-20 and the key factor in the selection is the highest HT/HS number and Viscosity Index. I can tell you Mobil One is not the answer and should you take the time to learn about lubricants, you will understand that M1 is a fair product that is marginally better than MOST dino based oils and grossly overpriced for the value in the bottle. Going to a higher viscosity oil is not the answer for additional protection in a towing environment. Because of Fords spec concerning 5w-20, the engine will stay cleaner, run cooler, and have better lubrication. More on that later.

Protects better. I love that term as nobody has a clue what it means. Protection from what? Protection from corrosion, wear, what are we protecting here? How many have even heard of an engine failure due to high heat and lubrication failure? I will be surprized if anybody has. So, let's look at it from the standpoint that we want the engine to last forever. In this environment, we would be looking for an oil that would give us 100% hydrodynamic lubrication. That is when there is an oil film separating the 2 metal surfaces. Because they don't touch, there is no wear. But this is not reality because when an engine is subject to load, the oil film is squeezed out either at the rings or the bearings. So now we need to look for an oil that has good mixed film lubricating qualities. This where most of our driving takes place. But, if you have a heavy foot or putting the engine under extreme load, it then falls to boundary lubrication. This is where the oil that we select had better have a good additive package because that is the only protection we have. The 2 most common additives for boundary lube is zinc( better known as ZDDP) and phosphorus. Some of the more exotic anti-wear agents are borons and moly in mostly ester forms. Zinc and phos usually come into play at 165 degrees prox and the others at 360 degrees prox. In a towing environment, look for these exotics in the oil you select. If you are not towing or have an extreme environment, you will not need them. So we should be looking for an oil high in ZDDP, Phos,Moly and Boron. The more the better- right? Uh-no. If a little bit is good, a whole lot is better does not apply here. Because ZDDP and Phos can and will destroy the emmissions system on your engine, we have limits. Those limits are set by API and auto manufacturers build engines and emmission systems to match API requirements. Aren't all oils API certified? NO. Most synthetics in Gp IV and Gp V are not API approved. Does this mean we can't use them? No, but you need to be aware that using them and having an oil related failure of the engine or emmissions system will disqualify you from any warranty claim. So we look for an oil that has a good basestock, meets API standards, has a good balanced additve package,and is designed to function in the engine we have.

Fords spec concerning 5w-20 and the 153 H. These oils meeting Fords spec should be in a class to themselves and I'm surprized that it hasn't happened. They not only meet current standards, they surpass the proposed GF-4 standards as well. I will quote from the 76 Performance T.E.A.M. newsletter as they explain it rather well.

" Ford and Honda have actually established test limits for the 5w-20 engine oils that go BEYOND the requirements of API SL/ILSAC, GF-3. Ford requires either a double-lenght (160 hours) Sequence IIIF or a double lenght (128 hours) Sequence IIIE test with a maximum viscosity increase of 200%. The corresponding limits for the single lenght test are 275% maximum and and 375% maximum, respectively. In addition, Fords limit for high temperature deposits in the TEOST MHT-4 test is 30 mg maximum compared with 45 mg maximum allowed under API SL/ILSAC, GF-3. Obviously, meeting either of these requirements is very difficult. Again, higher quality base oils and/or signifaicantly higher levels of anti- oxidants are required."
Note, Ford requires their oils to be tested double the time lenght of normal API oils, have less deposits than those of a single lenght test, and oxidize less.

So, where are we on our selection? Well, we know know we should try to stay in the API limits if we can. But what viscosity is best? When oil is compressed(pumped) it will rise in temperature just as a turbo engine which usually has a cooler to get rid of heat as it compresses air. The thinner the oil, the less heat generated by the pumping action. A thinner oil also dissipates heat faster and can be pumped in higher volumes back into the engine. Now which would you prefer to have in your engine- an oil that has a high viscosity index, lower viscosity rating, cools quicker, can be pumped in larger volumes, OR would you prefer an oil that has a higher viscosity, doesn't cool as quick, and can't be pumped in the same volume as a thinner oil? It's your engine and you can certainly use anything you like but make mine 5w-20.

Concerning race engines. They are a breed to themselves. We did a project for 2 of the Winston Cup race teams at Texas Motorspeedway testing a straight 20w oil for a 500 mile race. Even I found it amazing that going from 40w- to 30w- to 20w had such an impact on speed. Needless to say the testing was extensive. Some of the guys are running 20w in the short races and short track races. Some of them roll the dice and try it on the high speed tracks, some even finish the race. But you need to know that these are special blends that are not available at any price to the public. Also, the formulation is proprietary and highly guarded.

I hope I didn't ramble too much and hopefully answered some of your questions.

 

That's an excellent post, with a lot of information. Most important its nice to read some information like that form someone here. It is hard to search for information on the web because, at least for me, I feel it is biased.

I have a quetion, as far as 5W-20 goes what brands meet what your stating are good in your post? As far as towing just now and then, and only 3,000 lbs tops. It is hard enough trying to figure out what the bottle is telling me.

 

labnerd, thanks for taking the time to type that in.

The big question on my mind is this: Do I have to check a bottle of 5w-20 to make sure it meets Ford's specs? I would think they would all meet it today, but that could change.

01, good question, now I'm wondering if my oil meets what labnert stated in his post.