Engine "flushing" is not maintenance. That's the point.

It's not very difficult. Use high quality fluids and filters and change them regularly. Leave the goofy *** flushes on the shelf at the store.

 

exactly what i was going to say. There is no such thing as a mechanic in a can.

If you are really worried about whats in your oil, drop your oil pan, and clean out the sump. Too much work for you? then leave it alone.
-Patrick

 

Do you understand my truck's original engine has over 300,000 MILES
It is the long term study in this thread for not flushing your truck's engine. If there were signs that it is wearing out, I'd have a clear proof by now. I'd think 300,000 miles in a cold climate would prove my point to any resonable man. Obvously, when it does finally quit, you'll feel it was caused by not flushing it, and I'll feel that it just plain plain wore out.

 

My truck's engine ALSO has over 300Kmi, and I've ALSO never flushed it.

Not all engines require flushing, and those that need it under certain circumstances DON'T need it under certain OTHER circumstances. I'm not telling anyone he HAS to flush his engine, or that anything bad is going to happen if he DOESN'T.

My whole point (from the beginning) is that: engine flushing CAN be done safely & effectively as a maintenance procedure. It is not inherently "bad". The original poster asked if it was OK. Like any procedure, if it's done PROPERLY, the answer is: YES. Some people claim that it CAN'T help; I disagree.

If you've used cheap oil in the past, or you suspect crankcase deposits for any reason, DON'T WAIT for the engine to die: flush it NOW using a good product, & following the instructions.

What office did that come out of? If you're using the Owner's Manual as your only reference, remember that it's written for OWNERS - not service personnel. The owner's manual also says never to attempt to remove the SRS components. Does that mean that any shop that tries to change out your clock spring is just after your cash? Or that it SHOULDN'T BE DONE?

BTW
Engine flushing is NOT profitable for service departments, especially if that's all you go in for. The technician loses his @$$, & the company barely breaks even (if that).

 

I am service personnel, and from what I've been told by field service engineers, area reps, the goons on Ford's dial-a-prayer technical assistance hotline and instructors at Ford Training Centers, any type of oil additive/flush is not recommended or approved by Uncle Henry. Can I find official documentation supporting this? No, not right now I can't. But I'm more inclined to trust the people who see these things in and out, people who've had their hands in the design and testing of these engines, than you. No offense.
That's a pretty dumbass statement that I fail to see the point of, since people who don't know what they're doing can get hurt working on SRS stuff. Dunno how someone is gonna get hurt pouring a can of crap into their engine. I guess if you're really accident prone or something.

<snipped> and ETA - We'll leave it at this, and I think we can mutually agree on this part - Engine flushing? Do it at your own risk.

 

I agree, Quintin. Leave the junk on the shelf.

If flushing was so beneficial, owner's manuals would have it included in the maintenance schedules. Why? Because it's too damned easy! And cheap.

The contention that automakers discourage flushing because it's actually beneficial is stupid. Why? Automakers want buyers to get good service out of their vehicles. They don't want engines dying out at 100,000 miles. Why? Because a customer who gets burned once might try a brand again, but not a third time..........and that's how automakers make their money. Repeat customers. The guy who buys a smaller car, trades up few times over the years, reaches middle age and wants a truck and a Mustang to go with it, retires to a Crown Vic or a Lincoln, etc............................

Flush the toilet, not the engine.

The cures-in-a-can are marketed to people like................me. Preventive maintenance nuts who only want to do good stuff for their vehicles, but are prone to do harm by fixing something that isn't broken.

I've learned, without suffering disaster, that overkill is just that.

Leave the stuff on the shelf.

Thanks, Quintin.

 

Having just given the benefit of the doubt on just about all matters relating to maintenance to the manufacturer, I will say that there are two points I disagree with. One is the 100,000 mile spark plug, and the other is the "lubed for life" differential. I just don't buy it.

Ford changed my plugs at 28,000 miles due to some knocking and it was discovered that the wrong plugs had been installed at the factory. Didn't matter, I was going to do it at 30,000 miles anyway. I'm not leaving plugs in over that.

I will change the differential oil soon. I have a hard time accepting that the oil in there doesn't degrade in some way.

Yet in performing these two steps, I'm only replacing something that's already there anyway. There's not much to mess up.

It's not like adding a can of motor flush and expecting something grand to happen.

Is 30,000 miles too soon to change the diff oil?

Help. I can't sleep.

 

Me too.It was actually in response to this, but I couldn't remember if it was you who had said it. Now I see that it was chester, so take it in that context. Not aimed at you, but as a retort to this "dumbass statement".

 

My how the pot has boiled since I was last here. I hope everyone can agree to disagree on this.

I tend to agree with Steve and Tritonpwr that if it's done as a normal maintenace item that it shouldn't cause any problems. It's when it's done as a oh my god I hope this will fix my problem, then it can be a problem.

I also agree with others that say if you change your oil and filters and perform you other services as scheduled that you won't have to use such products, with one caviat.

That being, don't use oils high in parafin. You know the ones, from the Quaker State, still don't get it, you know PENNsivania.

Having said all that junk, I'm replacing my engine with 214,000 miles on it, along with the Tranny and Transfer Case. It's a long story I won't get into here, but I'll post some pictures from the engine in a few days. I was darn impressed with how clean it looks inside.

Later,
Doug

 

Sorry DDan1967, but the word paraffin in the lube inductry means that the chain molecules are either straight saturated chain(normal) or branched (ISO). They are also referred to as alkanes. They are non-reactive and offer good oxidation stabilty. It is not wax.
You also referenced Pennzoil in your remarks. Pennzoil are some of the best dino oils on the market. The OCI Pennzoil will yield averagely lower wear metals over the scheduled oil change interval, have less oxidation, and allow fewer deposits than the average dino oil and some synthetics. Your criticizm is not warranted.
Again, the thread is about engine flushes of the quick type. These are solvents. It has about the same value as adding diesel to the oil for cleaning. Not too brilliant to say the least. Scuffing and galling is the norm using these types of products. Want to destroy your engine- here's yer sign.

 

I have engines from the size of a *** .049cc to a 14L cummins diesel, and I've never flushed any of them. You never hear somebody say, "my engine wouldn't run until I poured that engine flush in it".

 

Straight from owner's manual:

Additional engine oil additives, oil
treatments, or engine treatments
are never needed and could, under
certain conditions, lead to engine
damage which is not covered by
your Ford warranty.


Straight from warranty guide

Damage Caused by Improper Maintenance
Your New Vehicle Limited Warranty does not cover damage caused by
failure to maintain the vehicle, improperly maintaining the vehicle, or
using the wrong fuel, oil, lubricants or fluids. See the Owner Guide for
correct fluid types and levels, and consult the Service Guide for proper
ways to maintain your vehicle.

Keep talking steve.

 

Interesting that this article doesn't fully support your claims. Note I said fully.

Refining Oil
The oil product you buy starts as a base oil. The base oil makes up about 85% of the oil you buy. The base oil can be refined from crude oil, chemically (synthetically) manufactured, or a blended combination.

...........................

The simplest way to refine oil is to process it with a clay, a material a lot like kitty litter. The clay will soak up much of the aromatics and sulpher and nitrogen compounds. Then, you dilute the oil with solvent like MEK (Methyl-Ethyl-Keytone) and/or Toluene (that's the stuff in model airplane glue that's so popular with teenagers), and freeze the oil. The good stuff will mostly stay liquid, and the waxes will solidify and can then be filtered out. This clay-solvent refining process has been around since about 1930.

Oils refined with the clay-solvent process contain a fair amount of paraffin and wax. These molecules cause several problems in an engine: they sometimes fall out of solution, leading to buildups in your engine that must be cleaned out somehow. Also, as these molecules get hot they thin out quite a bit, much more than mineral oil, so they make the oil's high temperature performance rather poor. Finally, at low temperatures the waxes and paraffins thicken the oil so much that you really couldn't call it a lubricant. If you're curious about this, buy a cheap quart of straight 30wt oil and put it in your refrigerator or freezer over night. You'll be amazed at how thick it becomes. More than half the motor oil sold in N.America in 2004 is made from base oils refined with the clay- solvent process (I like to call it the Kitty-litter and Kerosene refining method), but I don't think this is the type of oil you want to put into an engine you love. These oils are roughly 85% good stuff (oil) and 15% bad stuff (paraffin and wax). To put this in perspective, think of taking a gallon of really excellent oil, and melting a 12" dinner candle into it.

In 1959, Chevron developed a new method of refining base oils called Hydrocracking, where you process the raw oil at high temperatures and pressures with hydrogen and various catalysts. In Hydrocracking, many of the paraffin and wax molecules are broken up into mineral oil molecules, which increases the performance of the base oil dramatically. Also, far more of the aromatics and sulpher and nitrogen compounds are removed from the oil.

Since 1990, Chevron's process has been improved. In 1993, Chevron invented the Hydro-Isomerization process, where wax and paraffin molecules are reshaped into useful lubricants instead of simply being broken up into smaller molecules. By increasing the severity of the hydrocracking process, increasing the temperature and pressure and processing time to process more and more of the unwanted wax and paraffin molecules, the oil's low and high temperature performance and resistance to oxidation can be improved to the point where the distinction between mineral oils and synthetics becomes blurred. Chevron now licenses this process, called Iso- DeWaxing. This process of oil refining is becoming more and more popular, and in 2004 accounts for almost half of all base oils. Iso- DeWaxing not only produces much higher-performance oil, but also allows you to start with lower quality crude oil, making us less dependent on the few countries that happen to produce the purest crude oils.


Now as far as Pens I also thought that once upon a time. And maybe it is so again, but I pulled down an engine that I'd only ever run Pens or Quaker in after the Oil pump seized; the pick up screen was pluged with and all the internal parts were coated with a layer of a waxy substance. Granted this was around 1996, and their processes may have changed since then. But I still wouldn't run it if you payed me.

Oh by the way, keep your sign.

Doug

 

You STILL missed the point, and you took my quote out of context. I wasn't calling you a dumbass - I was using Quintin's term in my reply to him.

Further: you're misinterpreting that excerpt from the manual. An engine flush is NOT an engine oil additive, an oil treatment, or an engine treatment. Nor is it a lubricant, or fluid (in the context of that excerpt). It's a service chemical. Keep reading...

DDan's statment wasn't a lube industry quote - it's common knowledge among novices, amateurs, & pro mechanics that those oils leave a LOT of "wax" deposits. If the industry chooses to use the common term "paraffin" to describe something so totally different from its common meaning, that's just a defensive marketing technique. When we say "paraffin", we mean WAX, and those oils are LOADED with it.
Right. "Quick" being the operative word there. You don't leave it in the oil for 4,000 miles; not for 400 miles; not even for 400 minutes. Just like a transmission flush, an engine flush is performed IMMEDIATELY before an oil change, and the engine is only run WITH the flush for ~5 min (depending on the brand of flush). You can almost get away with running an engine with NO oil for that long, so the SLIGHT dilution by the flush for a few minutes does more GOOD than harm, if it's done on a regular schedule in an engine that is STARTING to develop deposits. If the deposits are already thick, it's too late.

If your truck's engine has so much deposits in the engine while it's still under warranty that you even CONSIDER flushing it, you should get a new engine. Besides: who's gonna flush his OWN engine while his truck is under warranty? If it needs service, he'll take it to the dealer - if the dealer flushes it, it's the dealer's problem if the engine blows up.

 

[QUOTE=Steve83]A service chemical? Indeed. Then why aren't flushes included in the service intervals?

...........and beans aren't food. They are flatulence inducers.