Thanks masseyman, you are so right. Cam drives the distributor - got it!

 

What about the stator? Everything I read pretty much says the stator is the most important sensor there is and it is what tells the computer the engine is rotating and turn the fuel injectors on. Anyone ever had a stator go out?

 

I suspect the lack of dash lights is behind it, in more ways than one.

My '92 started doing something odd - when I started it, or sometimes at random, the alternator gauge needle would start swinging wildly...this was before I learned those gauges don't actually do anything...

So the last time I saw this behaviour, I switched off to restart, as that sometimes made it go away.

Next thing I know, the whole thing's completely dead. No interior light, no horn, nothing. Battery and connection appear to be fine. Fiddle some more, quite a bit more, until the mosquitos threaten to drive me insane.

Called a towtruck, he towed it home for me. Bored one morning a couple of days later, I go out to tinker with it...I'd checked the under the hood fuses, assuming nothing engine or starting -related is in the in-truck fuse holder. Start pulling and checking fuses - even losing track and putting fuses in the blank spots, just in case. Being methodical, I'm putting dielectric grease on the fuse blades as I put them back in.

At some point, I notice the under-hood light is on, dimly.

Fiddle with in cab fuses some more, plus the ignition switch which can be a little flaky, it's possible to turn it off and remove the key, and get the "take the key out chime" and you can even restart it without the key - if you don't turn the switch all the way back.

Progressively or suddenly, power is back, truck starts and runs, and has run for months through all sorts of weather. Go figure. When I bought it, it hadn't been driven for ages, and over the past months I've noticed things working better, the cruise control buttons were a little funny for example, now it all works fine...so use and disuse is a factor.

Did the 85 have the fuel cutoff solenoid, and/or the security thing, as in, can't be started without the little microchip in the key? I've seen keys come apart, with the chip falling out....might want to check those although I'm not sure about the dash lights (I did discover my ignition switch problem when I found I had engine, power, but no dash lights and no turn signal, so I guess the switch was a bit dodgy, but again, with use (and my taking care with the switch) it's been fine.

 

Here's a thought. If the engine has not actually been started yet, will the computer "see" the sensors? It may be waiting to have running conditions to sense and adjust to them...did you clear the codes by disconnecting the battery? That may be the more reliable way to do it, rather than the jumper/button method....I found when I replaced my O2 sensor, I still got the CEL for a couple more days, despite disconnecting battery, then it was ok from then on.

I am really thinking fuel cutoff solenoid, if you are seeing gas at the rail....also, have you checked the electrical input to the injectors themselves for powe/pulse?

Also, pull ALL those fuses, one by one. Check, clean, dielectric, reinsert. Consider swapping ignition switch too.

 

Thanks pjb, yep, pulled and checked all fuses, hit the emergency fuel cut-off button, all that stuff. I'm thinking the ignition switch might have something to do with it too, my wife couldn't get the key out once, I had to really fiddle with it to get it out. Then, it wouldn't go in, had to pry a little broken piece out with a dental pick, but it started and ran fine for almost a year since. I'm not sure as you say, until it starts that the computer will see those sensors. It reads them during key on engine off test, obviously, since it won't start.

Snowing pretty hard, so any further checking will have to wait a day or two!

 

UPDATE!! Much to my dismay, the timing light has verified it and inspection of the rotor at TDC - IT HAS JUMPED TIME!! With the timing mark at TDC, the rotor is more than a full post off of number #1. I suppose while the engine was stumbling at rough idle, the chain must have skipped a tooth.

Now I am about to tear the front off of the engine in the snow to change the timing set. UUGH!!

 

Are there any circuit breakers in place of fuses there? Make sure they're ok.

I guess tracing where there's power, and where there isn't is coming up on your list, I guess it's time to go past the obvious, which you've mostly covered, and go onto the obscure.

On the upside, it'll run like new when you get it going....

Did you measure fuel PRESSURE at the rail? The presence of fuel doesn't necessarily indicate there's enough there to make things happen, like I said, you need to test the voltage at the injectors, too, and see if they're receiving a signal or not.

What other event would account for a total fuel cutoff? You've checked the fuel cutoff solenoid (i guess you tried to reset it, but you should probably find out how to actually test it)

I know what you mean about the cold, I have lots of little jobs to do, and no desire to do any of them.

 

I would love to test the fuel pressure at the rail, this is one of the only systems I've seen with no schrader valve on the rail or any place to hook up a gauge. I seem to have voltage at the injectors, that is what led me on to the timing, plus someone suggested it above. I'll pull the distributor first to make sure the gear pin hasn't sheared, then on to inspection of the timing set.

I'm with you, once running it should run like never before!

 

I just want to make sure you have done this check correctly so you aren't tearing the front of the engine off in vain. No.1 is the front cylinder on the passenger side, NOT THE DRIVERS SIDE. Did you follow the spark plug wire from the passenger side front to determine which distriuror terminal was no.1?. Another way to determine the correct distributor terminal, No.1 should be the second terminal clockwise from the rearmost distibutor cap hold down. (this according to the Haynes manual). What makes me think you may have gotten them mixed up is no.5 distributor terminal is right next to no.1 distributor terminal(counterclockwise). And no.5 is the other front cylinder on the engine(the drivers side). Sorry for any confusion, I just don't want to see you tearing the engine apart for nothing.

 

Masseyman, I got it, believe me. I was surprised to crawl under to put a socket on the crank bolt to check how much slop I have, and found some prior owner or mechanic idiot marked a line in the wrong place on the balancer! I cleaned it off and degreased the balancer, found the timing marks and marked 0 deg with red nail polish so I won't mistake it and found the timing seems right. THANK GOD FOR THAT!!

What I did find was the wiring harness bundle has worn the insulation off the wires on the TFI and were no doubt shorted together. I'm going to replace the stator and TFI and see what that gets me, but I have to take care of this wiring too. A new or partial harness might be in order as the insulation on a few of the wires is brittle and cracked.

I'm really glad I found the TDC mis-marked on the balancer. It is funny with used vehicles you just never know what guys did to them before you got them.

 

First: STOP throwing part$ at it. That makes it harder to diagnose, and it's generally a waste of time (as you've found).

Second: Put down ALL the tools & pick up a digital multimeter (DMM) & a Haynes manual (PN 36058 w/light blue cover), and follow the procedure in Ch.5 Sec.5 on p.5-5. That should tell you why the injectors aren't opening.



Ford moved the timing mark when the engines went EFI, so that might be why the balancer had it in the wrong spot. A previous mechanic might have marked it for the OLD location, or the balancer could have come off an older engine & been marked correctly for that one.

 

Steve, thanks for the advice. I'm going to definately stop throwing part$ at it as I've changed everything there is except the ECM. One big thing I found is the wiring chafing issue. I've cleaned it up as best as I can and coated everything with liquid electrical tape, but still the copper is oxidized somewhat and if it runs will be suspect forever in my mind until it is repalced. BUT - I did find out once I changed the stator and TFI and cleaned these wired up I am getting fuel now. I have the plugs out and the battery charging and tomorrow I'll turn it over without the plugs to clear the cylinders and put the plugs back in and see what gives. Hopefully all this cranking has soaked the cylinders in raw fuel and flooded it. If it still won't fire, it is getting towed to a good shop so instead of throwing money at it, then I can shovel it in!

 

Found it. Whomever mentioned timing, was right on the mark! (pun intended!)

I figured I might as well check it since there is no way to definately verify it without looking and the crank seal was shot and blowing oil all over everywhere and needed to be changed anyway. It blew my mind when the cover cam off to reveal the chain barely on the crank sprocket at all!! With the alignment mark on the crank at the top, the cam mark it about 45 deg. off. Counting teeth puts it off about 3 teeth.

It'll be up and running tomorrow evening. At least it better be!

 

Lucky for you, these are NOT interference engines.

 

About the mark on the balancer that wasn't at 0 degrees, could the mark have been at "whatever" degrees where the last guy marked it to use a timing light?