Dealership blaming noise on Fram Oil Filter
#46
11-20-2009, 03:26 AM
I use MC too on the truck. Wally-World sells them for about $3.50-$3.75. You can find Wix but not as easy as MC. Wix is unusual in that they have maintained the quality that they were always known for. I wouldn't put Fram on a lawn mower if they gave me a truck load of 'em free!
#48
11-20-2009, 07:51 AM
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Jay, if you are that confident about your products, how about helping this guy go to bat with his dealer over this issue? Not trying to be rude, but put your money where your mouth is.
If you are ever denied a warranty claim due to use of Amsoil products, that's exactly what they will do, and if the dealer won't budge, Amsoil picks up the tab.
You still have to convince us a lot better here about the quality of your standard orange oil filter.
If you are ever denied a warranty claim due to use of Amsoil products, that's exactly what they will do, and if the dealer won't budge, Amsoil picks up the tab.
You still have to convince us a lot better here about the quality of your standard orange oil filter.
FRAM will not get involved in a lawsuit with a Ford dealer, they will however do a in depth engineering examination of the filter in question and provide a complete report of what is found. If that filter is defective, they would of course make the customer whole. The bottom line, we stand 100% behind our products. We do not take the uninformed opinion of a dealer service manager who has not done one stitch of investigation about what is actually wrong with this gentlemans truck. How does the service manager know the filter is causing the problem? Xray vision? The cam phaser knocking issue is a well known problem on modular motors with variable valve timing. If I was this truck owner, I would complain to the highest level of the Ford service organization.
If the truck owner wants to file a quality claim against FRAM, I can facilitate that. We will send an independent investigator (he works for an insurance company, not us) to go and see the vehicle and determine the cause of failure, if it is the filter, we would pay for it. I wonder what would happen if the truck owner screwed a Motorcraft filter on it and took it to a different dealer?
To the truck owner, I can be reached at Jay.Buckley@Honeywell.com, if I can be of assistance, I am more than happy to.
#49
11-20-2009, 07:53 AM
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I use MC too on the truck. Wally-World sells them for about $3.50-$3.75. You can find Wix but not as easy as MC. Wix is unusual in that they have maintained the quality that they were always known for. I wouldn't put Fram on a lawn mower if they gave me a truck load of 'em free!
#50
11-20-2009, 08:06 AM
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amsoil filter warranty
Jay, if you are that confident about your products, how about helping this guy go to bat with his dealer over this issue? Not trying to be rude, but put your money where your mouth is.
If you are ever denied a warranty claim due to use of Amsoil products, that's exactly what they will do, and if the dealer won't budge, Amsoil picks up the tab.
This is simply not true, here is a complete copy of the amsoil filter warranbty right from amsoil
AMSOIL INC. warrants each AMSOIL filter to be free from defect in material and workmanship during the period of service life recommended by AMSOIL INC. or the engine or equipment manufacturer. This warranty may not be extended to cover AMSOIL filters that have been improperly installed, abused, damaged or used in competitive racing or on equipment that has been modified using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners. AMSOIL INC. does not make filter recommendations for aircraft or aviation applications and does not guarantee the performance of AMSOIL filters in such applications. If an AMSOIL filter is found to be defective in material or workmanship during the period of service life recommended by the engine or equipment manufacturer or per AMSOIL recommendations, AMSOIL will replace the defective filter with another AMSOIL filter or credit the customer’s account. AMSOIL will reimburse the customer for reasonable costs of parts and labor required to repair the engine or equipment to the extent the damage was solely attributable to a defect in the AMSOIL filter.
In order to obtain engine or equipment repairs under this warranty the customer must contact the AMSOIL Technical Services Department directly at:
AMSOIL INC.
Attn: Technical Services Department
AMSOIL Center
1101 Susquehanna Ave.
Superior, WI 54880
(715) 399-TECH (8324)
The customer must also allow the AMSOIL Technical Services Department to examine the filter and, if required, the engine or equipment to determine the extent of damage and whether it was caused by a defective AMSOIL filter. The filter must be returned in its original, undamaged condition to the AMSOIL Technical Services Department for examination. This warranty is exclusive of any other warranty, expressed or implied. AMSOIL filtration products expressly disclaim, without limitation, the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose. The foregoing states the entire AMSOIL filtration products exclusive liability and the buyer’s exclusive and sole remedy for any damages or claim made in connection with the sale of an AMSOIL filter. AMSOIL filtration products shall in no event be liable for any special, incidental or consequential damages whatsoever, except those specifically provided for in this warranty. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitations or exclusion may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other rights, which vary from state to state.
It does not say-If a dealer denies you warranty due to installing our filter, we will cover your vehicle. It says the same thing we do, if the filter is defective and causes a failure, we will cover it. Where did you see anything otherwise? This is right from the Ansoil website.
You still have to convince us a lot better here about the quality of your standard orange oil filter.
If you are ever denied a warranty claim due to use of Amsoil products, that's exactly what they will do, and if the dealer won't budge, Amsoil picks up the tab.
This is simply not true, here is a complete copy of the amsoil filter warranbty right from amsoil
AMSOIL INC. warrants each AMSOIL filter to be free from defect in material and workmanship during the period of service life recommended by AMSOIL INC. or the engine or equipment manufacturer. This warranty may not be extended to cover AMSOIL filters that have been improperly installed, abused, damaged or used in competitive racing or on equipment that has been modified using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners. AMSOIL INC. does not make filter recommendations for aircraft or aviation applications and does not guarantee the performance of AMSOIL filters in such applications. If an AMSOIL filter is found to be defective in material or workmanship during the period of service life recommended by the engine or equipment manufacturer or per AMSOIL recommendations, AMSOIL will replace the defective filter with another AMSOIL filter or credit the customer’s account. AMSOIL will reimburse the customer for reasonable costs of parts and labor required to repair the engine or equipment to the extent the damage was solely attributable to a defect in the AMSOIL filter.
In order to obtain engine or equipment repairs under this warranty the customer must contact the AMSOIL Technical Services Department directly at:
AMSOIL INC.
Attn: Technical Services Department
AMSOIL Center
1101 Susquehanna Ave.
Superior, WI 54880
(715) 399-TECH (8324)
The customer must also allow the AMSOIL Technical Services Department to examine the filter and, if required, the engine or equipment to determine the extent of damage and whether it was caused by a defective AMSOIL filter. The filter must be returned in its original, undamaged condition to the AMSOIL Technical Services Department for examination. This warranty is exclusive of any other warranty, expressed or implied. AMSOIL filtration products expressly disclaim, without limitation, the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose. The foregoing states the entire AMSOIL filtration products exclusive liability and the buyer’s exclusive and sole remedy for any damages or claim made in connection with the sale of an AMSOIL filter. AMSOIL filtration products shall in no event be liable for any special, incidental or consequential damages whatsoever, except those specifically provided for in this warranty. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitations or exclusion may not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other rights, which vary from state to state.
It does not say-If a dealer denies you warranty due to installing our filter, we will cover your vehicle. It says the same thing we do, if the filter is defective and causes a failure, we will cover it. Where did you see anything otherwise? This is right from the Ansoil website.
You still have to convince us a lot better here about the quality of your standard orange oil filter.
#51
11-20-2009, 09:03 AM
If you read this thread, you'll notice several of us told him it was by all accounts not the filter, nor could the dealer deny him warranty from using a Fram filter...regardless of our opinions of them. As for this, where are you getting that Amsoil has a disclaimer to follow OEM change intervals?? Amsoil EaO filters are rated and recommended for 25,000 miles, not OE intervals. They do not have this disclaimer and it even says so in the warranty (which you attached...and entertainingly misquoted in an attempt to dirty Amsoil to make Fram look better) that you included...https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eao.aspx
AMSOIL INC. warrants each AMSOIL filter to be free from defect in material and workmanship during the period of service life recommended by AMSOIL INC. or the engine or equipment manufacturer. This warranty may not be extended to cover AMSOIL filters that have been improperly installed, abused, damaged or used in competitive racing or on equipment that has been modified using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners. AMSOIL INC. does not make filter recommendations for aircraft or aviation applications and does not guarantee the performance of AMSOIL filters in such applications. If an AMSOIL filter is found to be defective in material or workmanship during the period of service life recommended by the engine or equipment manufacturer or per AMSOIL recommendations, AMSOIL will replace the defective filter with another AMSOIL filter or credit the customer’s account. AMSOIL will reimburse the customer for reasonable costs of parts and labor required to repair the engine or equipment to the extent the damage was solely attributable to a defect in the AMSOIL filter.
I can tell you from a level of personal involvement Amsoil stands behind their products to the change interval they recommend better than most other companies stand behind their products under normal use. If they recommend the OEM change interval, it is for a particular, isolated situation and I would be more than happy to provide you with the Amsoil change interval recommendation documentation...you need to do some more research.
Oh...and I highly doubt the "long term reliability" of those vehicles you listed as OE with Fram can contribute their life or liability to rolling off the assembly line with a Fram filter. That's a stretch, even for you here trying to save face with Fram products. Odds are, that's the only time that vehicle saw a Fram filter.
My last experience with Fram (I'll disclaim that with it has been several decades ago) was finding floaties in my oil following an oil change. After removing the filter, I discovered the floaties all in the filter. I took a saw and cut the filter cleanly in half only to discover the cardboard end cap (the only filter I personally know of that does this) on the filter element had finally started to delaminate and fall apart and got mixed in with the oil.
If you've come here in attempt to promote Fram and save face with this bunch...I wish you luck
Last edited by Galaxy; 11-20-2009 at 10:37 AM.
#52
11-20-2009, 10:01 AM
Senior Member
Lemons on the truck to funny but i bet it will catch the salemans eye and they will talk to the service writer for you im sure. Once way back in 98 I went with my ex girl friends parents to Dublin Honda in CA out front was a young girl with here parents holding up signs and had lemons all over the car it was new and they didnt want to fix the bad clutch under the Honda new car warranty. My GF's dad went right over to girls father and started talking with him about it while my gf's mom was looking at the new Honda's next thing you know her dad said lets go right in front of the salesman really pissed the guy off you could just see it in his face LOL.
#53
11-20-2009, 12:29 PM
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#54
11-20-2009, 12:34 PM
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Jay, welcome to last week If you read this thread, you'll notice several of us told him it was by all accounts not the filter, nor could the dealer deny him warranty from using a Fram filter...regardless of our opinions of them. As for this, where are you getting that Amsoil has a disclaimer to follow OEM change intervals?? Amsoil EaO filters are rated and recommended for 25,000 miles, not OE intervals. They do not have this disclaimer and it even says so in the warranty (which you attached...and entertainingly misquoted in an attempt to dirty Amsoil to make Fram look better) that you included...
https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eao.aspx
AMSOIL INC. warrants each AMSOIL filter to be free from defect in material and workmanship during the period of service life recommended by AMSOIL INC. or the engine or equipment manufacturer. This warranty may not be extended to cover AMSOIL filters that have been improperly installed, abused, damaged or used in competitive racing or on equipment that has been modified using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners. AMSOIL INC. does not make filter recommendations for aircraft or aviation applications and does not guarantee the performance of AMSOIL filters in such applications. If an AMSOIL filter is found to be defective in material or workmanship during the period of service life recommended by the engine or equipment manufacturer or per AMSOIL recommendations, AMSOIL will replace the defective filter with another AMSOIL filter or credit the customer’s account. AMSOIL will reimburse the customer for reasonable costs of parts and labor required to repair the engine or equipment to the extent the damage was solely attributable to a defect in the AMSOIL filter.
I can tell you from a level of personal involvement Amsoil stands behind their products to the change interval they recommend better than most other companies stand behind their products under normal use. If they recommend the OEM change interval, it is for a particular, isolated situation and I would be more than happy to provide you with the Amsoil change interval recommendation documentation...you need to do some more research.
Oh...and I highly doubt the "long term reliability" of those vehicles you listed as OE with Fram can contribute their life or liability to rolling off the assembly line with a Fram filter. That's a stretch, even for you here trying to save face with Fram products. Odds are, that's the only time that vehicle saw a Fram filter.
My last experience with Fram (I'll disclaim that with it has been several decades ago) was finding floaties in my oil following an oil change. After removing the filter, I discovered the floaties all in the filter. I took a saw and cut the filter cleanly in half only to discover the cardboard end cap (the only filter I personally know of that does this) on the filter element had finally started to delaminate and fall apart and got mixed in with the oil.
If you've come here in attempt to promote Fram and save face with this bunch...I wish you luck
If you read this thread, you'll notice several of us told him it was by all accounts not the filter, nor could the dealer deny him warranty from using a Fram filter...regardless of our opinions of them. As for this, where are you getting that Amsoil has a disclaimer to follow OEM change intervals?? Amsoil EaO filters are rated and recommended for 25,000 miles, not OE intervals. They do not have this disclaimer and it even says so in the warranty (which you attached...and entertainingly misquoted in an attempt to dirty Amsoil to make Fram look better) that you included...https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eao.aspx
AMSOIL INC. warrants each AMSOIL filter to be free from defect in material and workmanship during the period of service life recommended by AMSOIL INC. or the engine or equipment manufacturer. This warranty may not be extended to cover AMSOIL filters that have been improperly installed, abused, damaged or used in competitive racing or on equipment that has been modified using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners. AMSOIL INC. does not make filter recommendations for aircraft or aviation applications and does not guarantee the performance of AMSOIL filters in such applications. If an AMSOIL filter is found to be defective in material or workmanship during the period of service life recommended by the engine or equipment manufacturer or per AMSOIL recommendations, AMSOIL will replace the defective filter with another AMSOIL filter or credit the customer’s account. AMSOIL will reimburse the customer for reasonable costs of parts and labor required to repair the engine or equipment to the extent the damage was solely attributable to a defect in the AMSOIL filter.
I can tell you from a level of personal involvement Amsoil stands behind their products to the change interval they recommend better than most other companies stand behind their products under normal use. If they recommend the OEM change interval, it is for a particular, isolated situation and I would be more than happy to provide you with the Amsoil change interval recommendation documentation...you need to do some more research.
Oh...and I highly doubt the "long term reliability" of those vehicles you listed as OE with Fram can contribute their life or liability to rolling off the assembly line with a Fram filter. That's a stretch, even for you here trying to save face with Fram products. Odds are, that's the only time that vehicle saw a Fram filter.
My last experience with Fram (I'll disclaim that with it has been several decades ago) was finding floaties in my oil following an oil change. After removing the filter, I discovered the floaties all in the filter. I took a saw and cut the filter cleanly in half only to discover the cardboard end cap (the only filter I personally know of that does this) on the filter element had finally started to delaminate and fall apart and got mixed in with the oil.
If you've come here in attempt to promote Fram and save face with this bunch...I wish you luck
As far as what Honda dealers install on oil changes, its made by us and their data shows a very large number of customers coming back to the dealer for oil changes. like I said, your entitled to your opinion. Have a great day.
#55
11-20-2009, 04:05 PM
Jay, with the info we have here, I think you may NEED to try to promote Fram, and I don't blame you for doing so. As long as all of us can remain polite and respectful, we should continue this discussion. I think you, as tech director, need to get with your marketing folks and engineers and see what you can do to take care of the issues that have already been pointed out. Discrediting that guy on that Mopar site is not taking care of the issues. I'm not an engineer, I'm not a bean counter, but I'll stick my neck out and suggest that your standard orange oil filters need to be redesigned. Why don't Wix, Purolator, Motorcraft, etc. filters have the same issues? I know you guys know how to make a decent filter - but the standard orange one appears to have its problems.
#57
11-20-2009, 04:55 PM
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reading all this i have no idea what to use on my truck now.
#60
11-20-2009, 06:00 PM
That's easy...Amsoil. 
seriously though I think you'll find the majority of guys on here would agree that the Amsoil filter is top notch, if not (arguably) the best filter you can buy, and they could also be persuaded to admit they don't use one because of the cost...thus, Motorcraft becomes the next logical choice.
For me personally, my priority list would go 1) Amsoil 2) Mobil1 3) Motorcraft
seriously though I think you'll find the majority of guys on here would agree that the Amsoil filter is top notch, if not (arguably) the best filter you can buy, and they could also be persuaded to admit they don't use one because of the cost...thus, Motorcraft becomes the next logical choice.
For me personally, my priority list would go 1) Amsoil 2) Mobil1 3) Motorcraft