Dealership blaming noise on Fram Oil Filter
#76
Jay.Buckley@Honeywell.com
#77
Fram filters(and any other POS filter made by honeywell-penzoil-quakerstate ect.) have cardboard end caps inside them...dont belive me? cut one open and compare it to a motorcraft or other QUALITY filter. This cardboard is known to have chunks come loose and plug oil galleries to the cylinder heads, limiting lube to journals and phasers. If the tech takes off any bearing caps and finds the cam journals are scored and you had a Fram filter on there you are SCREWED. Let this be a lesson to you...avoid Fram.
#78
Well, you might not be totally SCREWED...like the man said, you'd most likely get your money back for the filter
Seriously though, this would be a very interesting (for lack of a better word) situation to be in with the dealer (Ford Motor Company actually) if the vehicle were under warranty. What would happen if the filter was proven to cause engine damage to an engine under warranty? Can Ford really deny the warranty claim?? After all, they can't dictate what filter you use unless they provided it for you. If a Fram filter was proven to have trashed your engine could Ford go after Fram? Or would the individual have to pursue the matter? I'll tell you with Amsoil, your motor would be covered. I can't make that statement that confidently about any other filter...including MC. And I have personally seen MC filters mechanically fail.
Seriously though, this would be a very interesting (for lack of a better word) situation to be in with the dealer (Ford Motor Company actually) if the vehicle were under warranty. What would happen if the filter was proven to cause engine damage to an engine under warranty? Can Ford really deny the warranty claim?? After all, they can't dictate what filter you use unless they provided it for you. If a Fram filter was proven to have trashed your engine could Ford go after Fram? Or would the individual have to pursue the matter? I'll tell you with Amsoil, your motor would be covered. I can't make that statement that confidently about any other filter...including MC. And I have personally seen MC filters mechanically fail.
#79
Fram filters(and any other POS filter made by honeywell-penzoil-quakerstate ect.) have cardboard end caps inside them...dont belive me? cut one open and compare it to a motorcraft or other QUALITY filter. This cardboard is known to have chunks come loose and plug oil galleries to the cylinder heads, limiting lube to journals and phasers. If the tech takes off any bearing caps and finds the cam journals are scored and you had a Fram filter on there you are SCREWED. Let this be a lesson to you...avoid Fram.
#80
definitly stay away from fram filters. i put one on my truck awhile back and my truck burned almost 2 quarts of oil in 3 weeks somehow. i had no idea why it was doing it so i called the service manager at ford and he said he has heard of that happening when you dont use a motocraft filter. after that im just sticking with nothing but motocraft in my truck
#81
What on earth are you talking about? All FRAM filters have a antidrainback valve if the factory filter has one. You are way off base
#82
I agree with Dynotech as they are just giving you a lot of BS.... Warranty is warranty and they will be paid for any services provided. Post the name of the Ford Stalership that is giving you a hard time and ask everyone to stay away. True that the Fram does not have anti-drain valve but for the few seconds at start-up, it is not the root of your problem....
#83
x2 glc....i really hope this guy responds
ive really not been a fram guy for awhile now...i put one on my 95 grand marquis... when i was like 16 and when i started it ..no oil pressure...and then it blew off the car... will never buy another i would make my own before i used another one on anything ...
ive really not been a fram guy for awhile now...i put one on my 95 grand marquis... when i was like 16 and when i started it ..no oil pressure...and then it blew off the car... will never buy another i would make my own before i used another one on anything ...
#84
I think some are confusing the failure of the anti drainback valve with having no valve at all. There have been several cases of members have noise at crankup and after removing the Fram and replacing it with the suggested Motorcraft, the noise went away. The expalnation I saw was that the Fram valve was cardboard and would fail, as opposed to a filter with a plastic valve. I think this is where the bad reputation for Fram filters came about.
There was also a study done a few years ago where someone cut open filters and compared them and possibly tested them in a lab. This study has been posted a few times, and as I recall, Fram did not fare well.
I have not read back all of the postings, so I may be repeating info. I apologize if that is the case. Your calm demeanor in answering the critizims is appreciated.
There was also a study done a few years ago where someone cut open filters and compared them and possibly tested them in a lab. This study has been posted a few times, and as I recall, Fram did not fare well.
I have not read back all of the postings, so I may be repeating info. I apologize if that is the case. Your calm demeanor in answering the critizims is appreciated.
__________________
Jim
Jim
#85
Jay, with the info we have here, I think you may NEED to try to promote Fram, and I don't blame you for doing so. As long as all of us can remain polite and respectful, we should continue this discussion. I think you, as tech director, need to get with your marketing folks and engineers and see what you can do to take care of the issues that have already been pointed out. Discrediting that guy on that Mopar site is not taking care of the issues. I'm not an engineer, I'm not a bean counter, but I'll stick my neck out and suggest that your standard orange oil filters need to be redesigned. Why don't Wix, Purolator, Motorcraft, etc. filters have the same issues? I know you guys know how to make a decent filter - but the standard orange one appears to have its problems.
I give up, like I stated before, I am not here to jump up and down and say "buy fram, buy fram". I got on here to help a guy who may be denied a warranty claim by a mis-informed service manager, nothing more.
Have a great day.
#86
O.k. I'm really kind of surprised at the number of members that seem to be anti fram on the site. Personally I've been using fram filters since about the stone age, well not really but quite some time, and have never had an issue? The vehicles have varied greatly along the way as well, from a 66 GMC with the 258 inline 6, a 72 Chevy with a 402BB, Toyota 22r and a toyota 22re, AMC 304 that was built to around 600 RWHP, ford explorer, Suzuki Grand Vitara, Ford Focus, my 98 f150, and many more along the way. and I dont think I have ever had an oil filter issue among any of them. Oh that 66 GMC is still a running driving truck with the original engine, never been opened other than to adjust the valves. Close to 500,000 miles. so if a fram filters where crap wouldn't you think it would have showed by now. I think Fram filters are fine and wouldn't hesitate to use one, I think Oil is a much more critical choice, and can only recommend using the best oil you can possibly afford. I always buy the top of the line fram as well.
Everyone keeps slamming fram and praising Motorcraft, but how many of you would agree that ford has messed up big with the "triton" series? from spark plug issues to cam phasers, seriously read through all the tsb's. theirs almost nothing in the truck not covered at some point. So you trust Ford to build a good engine in which you deem built to your standards? Which would mean that when you all post saying Ford built shoddy crap and knew it and still marketed it, do you still trust MC? And we all trust what a dealer tells us?
Everyone keeps slamming fram and praising Motorcraft, but how many of you would agree that ford has messed up big with the "triton" series? from spark plug issues to cam phasers, seriously read through all the tsb's. theirs almost nothing in the truck not covered at some point. So you trust Ford to build a good engine in which you deem built to your standards? Which would mean that when you all post saying Ford built shoddy crap and knew it and still marketed it, do you still trust MC? And we all trust what a dealer tells us?
#87
definitly stay away from fram filters. i put one on my truck awhile back and my truck burned almost 2 quarts of oil in 3 weeks somehow. i had no idea why it was doing it so i called the service manager at ford and he said he has heard of that happening when you dont use a motocraft filter. after that im just sticking with nothing but motocraft in my truck
#88
Fram filters(and any other POS filter made by honeywell-penzoil-quakerstate ect.) have cardboard end caps inside them...dont belive me? cut one open and compare it to a motorcraft or other QUALITY filter. This cardboard is known to have chunks come loose and plug oil galleries to the cylinder heads, limiting lube to journals and phasers. If the tech takes off any bearing caps and finds the cam journals are scored and you had a Fram filter on there you are SCREWED. Let this be a lesson to you...avoid Fram.
BTW- There are mnay filters on the market that use Fiber end caps. I guess all of them are bad as well? Please show me the proof of what you are saying. Ford has had issues with cam phasers, see the TSB I posted, its well known.
#89
O.k. I'm really kind of surprised at the number of members that seem to be anti fram on the site. Personally I've been using fram filters since about the stone age, well not really but quite some time, and have never had an issue? The vehicles have varied greatly along the way as well, from a 66 GMC with the 258 inline 6, a 72 Chevy with a 402BB, Toyota 22r and a toyota 22re, AMC 304 that was built to around 600 RWHP, ford explorer, Suzuki Grand Vitara, Ford Focus, my 98 f150, and many more along the way. and I dont think I have ever had an oil filter issue among any of them. Oh that 66 GMC is still a running driving truck with the original engine, never been opened other than to adjust the valves. Close to 500,000 miles. so if a fram filters where crap wouldn't you think it would have showed by now. I think Fram filters are fine and wouldn't hesitate to use one, I think Oil is a much more critical choice, and can only recommend using the best oil you can possibly afford. I always buy the top of the line fram as well.
Everyone keeps slamming fram and praising Motorcraft, but how many of you would agree that ford has messed up big with the "triton" series? from spark plug issues to cam phasers, seriously read through all the tsb's. theirs almost nothing in the truck not covered at some point. So you trust Ford to build a good engine in which you deem built to your standards? Which would mean that when you all post saying Ford built shoddy crap and knew it and still marketed it, do you still trust MC? And we all trust what a dealer tells us?
Everyone keeps slamming fram and praising Motorcraft, but how many of you would agree that ford has messed up big with the "triton" series? from spark plug issues to cam phasers, seriously read through all the tsb's. theirs almost nothing in the truck not covered at some point. So you trust Ford to build a good engine in which you deem built to your standards? Which would mean that when you all post saying Ford built shoddy crap and knew it and still marketed it, do you still trust MC? And we all trust what a dealer tells us?
#90
Motorking, stop replying to the same posts multiple times. We have already agreed that a filter in no way, shape or form will cause your engine to burn oil nor will they fly apart.
There are trolls on every forum and it is unfortunate.
If you could, why not show us test results on the filter for the F150 5.4 liter engine only. We do not care about Honda, Toyota or anyone else. Compare the Motorcraft which I believe has been made by Purolator and Champion over the years. Explain the start up noise issue that people have with a Fram filter that goes away when the offending Fram filter is removed. If you can just focus on what the truck guys here want to know you will get more cooperation than if you spam the board with the same replies 5 times.
I used Fram on my old Dodge Omni all the time and never had any troubles but there have been far too many reports of issues on the F150 with the Fram so I chose not to use them. Also I have little faith in a company that thinks filling a filter with teflon (like Slick 50) actually works when Dupont themselves state it will not. The engine does not get hot enough to melt or soften the PTFE to make any use of it.
There are trolls on every forum and it is unfortunate.
If you could, why not show us test results on the filter for the F150 5.4 liter engine only. We do not care about Honda, Toyota or anyone else. Compare the Motorcraft which I believe has been made by Purolator and Champion over the years. Explain the start up noise issue that people have with a Fram filter that goes away when the offending Fram filter is removed. If you can just focus on what the truck guys here want to know you will get more cooperation than if you spam the board with the same replies 5 times.
I used Fram on my old Dodge Omni all the time and never had any troubles but there have been far too many reports of issues on the F150 with the Fram so I chose not to use them. Also I have little faith in a company that thinks filling a filter with teflon (like Slick 50) actually works when Dupont themselves state it will not. The engine does not get hot enough to melt or soften the PTFE to make any use of it.