Jay, Yes, some of the post were somewhat brutal and some simply downright stupid (my personal favorites being the oil burning one and the one that only MC filters meet Ford specs). I personally will tell you that it's not personal, nor an attack on you...you happen to work for a company that does not have a good reputation in the market. Do I have an answer for that or have justification? No. All I can tell you is in this day and age with the internet and these forums, word-of-mouth is a mother. Fram filters (for what ever just or unjust reason) do not have a positive reputation pretty much across the board at just about every single motorsport forum I am a member of. My dislike of Fram, as I have mentioned, is from personal failure experience and the overall fit, finish, and feel of the product. But as I have also stated, that's not an attack on just your product as I feel the same way about MC filters.

Anyways, gotta have a thick skin around this bunch...and probably the case on just about any public forum.

 

For many years I worked in Ford Quality Services Dyno. Part of our responsibility was to disassemble dealer return 4.6 and early 5.4 engines from across North America. These were noise concerns, catastophic failures, you name it. Engines that were pulled from customers vehicles under warranty. We had engines from everyday drivers, taxi, limo, police, raceing, delivery service, etc. I think I can safely say I have seen it all when it comes to engine failures be it abuse or other wise. We dissasembled, analized, and wrote reports on our findings and determination on root cause of failure.

All filters be it air, fuel, oil have the potential to induce contamination from the very material it is constructed of. The very filter material that is designed to remove contaminates can breakdown and migrate into down stream engine components. Any filter regardless of manufacture has this potential. We have seen this with Mass air, fuel injectors, oil passages ( restrictors). it happens because anything mechanical has the potential to fail.

We would write reports based on our teardown analysis of the failed engine. This report would be used for determination of warranty approval or denial. I cannot remember when a warranty was denied because a specific brand of oil filter was used. Now I've seen failures where we found the original factory oil filter still on the engine after twenty to sixty or seventy thousand miles and this was noted in the report. A much bigger factor for warranty claim is regular maintainance with receipts/records intact. I simply do not believe a dealer has the legal right to deny a claim based on what brand of oil or filter the customer used. I personally have never seen this happen. We would get police vehicles with blown engines from high speed chases. The records would show they used some off brand filter with bulk oil but had regular oil changes at recommended intervals. They still were covered under warranty. I have recieved failed engines with every brand or off brand oil filter you can imagine and it was not a determining factor of warranty denial or acceptance. Keeping receipts and maintainance records for each vehicle is paramount.

Therefore the Fram versus Motorcraft debate in my opinion is mute. I have used Fram as well as motorcraft and others. If I have a particular concern ( start up knock for example) with one over the other then I stick with the one I have confidence in. I have never seen a warranty denial because a Fram filter was on the engine or as I stated any brand filter for that matter.

This is just based on my experience. I don't claim to know everything about this topic. But I know that Ford does value a customer and tries to satisfy them. After spending much time also as a dealer panel rep I can tell you there is always two sides of the story to every warranty claim. The dealers and the customers. I learned not to make any judgement until I heard both sides. You would be surprised how the story can change once you get everyone in room together....

If you are abusing your vehicle or neglecting regular maintainance they can and will decipher it and you very well may foot the bill on a failure replacement or repair. If not then the dealer should take care of you regardless of the oil filter brand. Good luck.

 

We have a 100k mile F150 test truck. It has been sitting for a month now without being started. I will see what kind of filter is on it and video tape the start up. Then I will change the oil and filter and use a FRAM filter, let it set for a few days and video tape the start up and post the results. I can show you a complete run down on all the filters we sell for the F150 engines including all specs for them. To compare, you will have to ask Mc and whatever other company you like for their test data. I cannot show you FRAM test data on competitors filters. How would you know it is true?

They would call it to question, just as we would if they published test results of our filters.

Ask them for their specs, they should be as willing as I am to share it with you.

I apologize for the multiple posts, a little sunday morning brain fade.

And as far as the Double Guard with PTFE? It was discontinued 3 years ago, though there are still some out there. I dont run this place, not my idea and discontinued for obvious reasons.

 

I found the link to the filter reviews that has been posted on this site a few times.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil...reference.html

 

i would never run fram-i personally use amsoil eao filters with amsoil ow20 oil with once a year oil changes or 25k miles ,on my own company vans-10-2004-2010 econolines, zero issues with 1 million documented miles,on that note,my brother in law who is a bigshot with bendix/honeywell has used fram filters exclusively on his 94,97.99,01,04, and 09 dodge pickups with zero issues,as long as they meet oem specs- he's happy- as well as he gets them for free...

 

bluejay thanks for the filter link very interesting and informative it should answer which filter to use.

 

It was YOU who made the claim that Wix and Motorcraft had efficiency ratings far below Fram. When challenged on it, you claim you have no way to come up with that information because neither of them publish it. Wonder why you have lost credibility? I don't! If you think that all of the people who would never go near a Fram filter again woke up one morning and like a bunch of bullies decided to pick on Fram "just because they could", you need help, seriously! I made the statement that I quit using Fram long before I ever read the reports on them because my oil got dirty too quick, I didn't fabricate that. When I changed to Purolater my oil stayed visibly cleaner. If you came with credibility, you have definitely lost it along the way.

 

Dynotech- An honest question- how long go did you work for Ford? If it was very long ago, things have definitely changed. I have worked for a number of Ford dealers over the years and driven Ford trucks for a long long time. I bought 4 new F-150's in 9 years. I had a vibration in the '99 from the day I drove it from the lot. I pin pointed about where the problem had to be and then the fun began. The Ford rep treated me on a totally legitimate claim, like something he had gotten on his shoe in a walk through the park. I was respectful to him, but I couldn't print here what he said to me. After 6 1/2 weeks without my new truck, it was the dealer that stepped up and did what was Ford's to do. It's amazing that I have bought 2 new F-150's since then. I don't think you realize what some of these customers who have traded a portion of their life for these vehicles go through when they have legitimate claims. The end you worked in was "sterile", so to speak compared to where we are when we have legitimate claims (in my case, bad transmission).

 

Boy I was just reading this thread an Im sorry to here about your motor. Hopefully you will get the problem resolved to your satisfaction. Oil analysis is critical to figuring out how your oil an engine are doing health wise. If theres any problem at all before it ever shows up in the motor it will show up in oil analysis. I do it religiously yeh it cost a few bucks but theres always a good pay off. Might I ask what oil did you use in this truck. Sorry if you already mentioned that. Didnt go through all the threads. I hate to say it but some oils are junk an others are outstanding. My theory is buy the best oil an filter available and if it costs a few bucks more so be it. I laugh at people trying to save a few bucks on oil an filters. Oil an filters are probably the least expensive part off owning the truck but probably the most important thing you can buy to protect your motor. Good luck an I hope you get this problem resolved.

 

i want to know his secret for removing the plugs and not breaking them.

 

April 2008 35 yrs. Hardly "sterile" Code58. My family and I as well as most of my friends are Ford customers as well so with all mechanical things issues arise and we spend just as much for our vehicles as you do. I was a UAW Ford Dealer Panel Rep not a Dealer Rep whose sole job is to act as a mediator for customer concerns. I had a regular job in the Dyno and helped with customer concerns usually on my own time. During my lunch, after work visiting dealerships etc. rarely did I ever receive overtime pay for these extra hours of work which added up to a considerable amount. It was because I cared about the customer and volunteered my time and experience. I'm sure some here are getting tired of me talking about my job I know I am. But I'm trying to add as much information as I can for people here and assuring them that most of that information is based on past experience. Don't have all the answers, never will thats why I also rely on the knowledge of others on this site. Take care.

 

wow this is why public forums **** me right off...who are you to question me?, a person who works on these vehicles everyday and talks to Ford engineers DAILY. I made the "stupid post" as you call it where i said only Ford filters meet there specs....its true weather you believe it or not. I have heard this over the phone direct from Ford engineers. Also while running OASIS today on an 04 4.6 2v with a complaint of a startup rattle I ran across the latest SSM from FORD.

21049 1997-2010 MULTIPLE VEHICLE - 4.6L/5.4L - ENGINE TICKING AND/OR RATTLE NOISE
MULTIPLE VEHICLE LINES WITH 4.6L OR 5.4L ENGINE MAY EXPERIENCE AN ENGINE TICKING OR RATTLE NOISE THAT SOUNDS LIKE A STUCK TAPPET (HLA). THIS MAY BE DUE TO THE DETERIORATION OF AN AFTERMARKET OIL FILTER. VEHICLES WITH THIS CONDITION HAVE LOW OIL PRESSURE AT ONE CYLINDER HEAD ONLY, WHILE MAIN PRESSURES ARE NORMAL. DISLODGED MATERIAL FROM THE AFTERMARKET OIL FILTER BLOCKS THE CAM CAP OIL PASSAGE, EITHER AT CYLINDER #4 (RIGHT BANK REAR) OR CYLINDER #5 (LEFT BANK FRONT). FOR VCT EQUIPPED ENGINES, INSPECT THE VCT VALVE BODY AND THE OIL PASSAGES UNDER THE FIRST CAM CAP. DAMAGE TO ENGINES CAUSED BY AFTERMARKET OIL FILTERS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY.
EFFECTIVE DATE: 10/22/2009

well their it is in Black and White...you still think an aftermarket filter wont void warranty?

 

I for one appreciate your contributions.. I've learned a few things from you and hope you keep sharing your insites. Thanks.

 

I've read of more then 1 person being denied because of a FRAM filter. Never heard of any others being denied but if I buy a new truck i wont take any chances..

 

Not everyone's credentials are published and without backup information, stories far out of the ordinary sound just that. Paralyzer, can you tell us what is a SSM? Maybe many know of them, I just never heard of one and interested to know about what they are & if they're published for an average joe to pick up. As others have stated, that statement in that SSM could violate a law about aftermarket parts. After all, aren't all oil filters aftermarket, especially if Ford puts a different MC filter on at the factory that isn't available as an aftermarket part as I read somewhere on here?

Statistically, I have to believe that problems caused by oil filters has to be very low, as I have not heard of many. There are a a LOT of people out there that simply take their F150's to Jiffy Lube and put in 10W30 and a non-motorcraft filter and their trucks run for a long time. Most of us here are a bit more **** and like to argue the fine points, which is good, as long as it's constructive and not too subjective!