COP install

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  #16  
Old 11-03-2013 | 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Pageracing
I was about to order the accel cop set for $210 for my 2005 4.6 truck. I figure using nitrous that a hotter coil set can only help. Anyone using these with good luck?
All hype no improvement with the aftermarket coils.
I run the Granatelli COP connectors & stock Motorcraft coils. 89,000 with no issues. The spark is plenty hot. It's able to overcome boost pressures from my supercharger and make the .035 gap without blowout. Seen plenty of folks making up to a 1000hp on stock coils with no issue.

I had coolant get on coils 1-4 after blowing a heater hose 2000 miles ago. No issue. Thought I had cleaned it up back then. Changed my plugs last night and found crap all down inside the coil recess for cylinder 3 & 4. Used a shop vac with a piece of 3/8 fuel line to suck out the crap. I normally do this when changing plugs anyway just to keep dirt & other particles from entering the cylinder when removing the plug.
 
  #17  
Old 11-03-2013 | 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrew
I hear yuh and Ford SHOULD have designed the boots that way. That's an engineering slip up ~. ~ some kind of flexible umbrella of sorts.

Some have tried the O-ring method, - I believe Bluegrass has ~ -sitting on the inside seal, then you would have something.
~ they should move freely by hand. The End lol
After watching a bunch of those videos of COP trouble, I have learned a little. One thing, Volvo had a boot that worked like a stopper, a rubber plug, going in the head.
Curious about oring method as I was thinking along that line, putting one at the enlarged part of boot which would be down in the well, but also something to seal better at surface. That would almost have to be an RTV product that would stick to the aluminum.
With that small amount of boot flanging onto the top of the head, movement of the coil which seems to be about an 1/8 inch swing, would certainly seem to compromise what sealing it does on its own. Oring at the position mentioned might help keep it centered.
I wonder what would be the best oring? Black? Note that some black orings have a semi-conductive nature and I think I'd rather avoid them with the high voltage. You can find out which ones with an ohm meter. Don't know about the red (presumably high temp) or green (usually a silicone type).
 
  #18  
Old 11-03-2013 | 11:06 PM
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From: MI
Yea, O-rings w/springs, silicon, neoprene, etc.. Many types lol.

In case you hadn't noticed, I sort of put way to much thought into this

To cut to the chase, in summery~

What you really need to know about coils. Forget the O-ring deal all together, - unless your lifted or hang around the clubs, like Great Lakes 4WD, - the boys at Peterson Off Road or maybe Midwest Off Road, -depending upon where your located. Unless you play that hard, being that cautious isn't really necessary.

Should make a sticky list.

1. Make absolutely sure your lower wheel well guards still exist, - they just fall off after awhile do to push tab fasteners that don't last.

2. Oil up your hood seal once in awhile, - Armor All works

3. Grease as explained earlier, don't worry about the chamber. If a plug chamber is holding water coolant or oil, it's from another problem. #'s 3 and 4 may have a little coolant in them once the heater core lines begin to fail at the connections. This is hard to determine at times because they only leak intermittently at first, once conditions are met. Making it difficult to catch in the act.

4. Use Motorcraft/Visteon coils only. Most likely the rest come off a barge that commutes back and forth from China. However, there are Weapon X coils that seem different, - but I don't know enough about their construction to honestly comment on them.

The Motorcraft and Visteon coils are the ONLY coils made to Ford spec AFAIK. The specifications are what set them apart. The coils that are manufactured in China use single build magnets w/weak wires which result in suppression interference and shortened service life. They also fail thermal shock tests which lead to shorted turns within the transformers copper windings. There's more, but those are the main issues.

So yea, just make sure the engine compartment is being protected as is was designed to be, use OEM coils and grease them up properly and your WILL NOT have any issues under normal circumstances.
 

Last edited by jbrew; 11-03-2013 at 11:11 PM.
  #19  
Old 11-04-2013 | 12:30 AM
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From: Joplin MO
And DO NOT WASH your engine. That can be death on cops.
 
  #20  
Old 11-04-2013 | 02:22 PM
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From: Houston,Tx
Also keep your front tires up. At least that's what ive found on my truck. Had a water and coil problem. Changed tires in front ,, seems to have helped. Since then have driven in water again going to job and haven't had water problem. 2 cents
 
  #21  
Old 11-06-2013 | 06:31 PM
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Think I will be researching orings. First I'll pull cop and check inside diameter of that head bore and then look for an oring that I can add at the point where the double ridge exists on boot. And consider what I can put under that top flange.
Something I've discovered after looking closely at the one unit I pulled will be used in consideration of a better solution. The COP for this vehicle have the angled boot and there is a slight but noticeable bend in the upper section of the boot. This has undoubtably occured because there is nothing to force the boot to stay straight to the point of that molded bend, unless you consider the undersized double rib that sits down in the well. That is, slight pressure upward on the boot from the way it slips over the plug and slight downward pressure from the way it is connected to the COP forces it to kink slightly more but also forces it off center of the top the well into head. And there is not much rubber on the boot to seal that hole into the well either. Dumb design.
To keep that small upper seal on boot centered they would have needed to extend the nipple on the coil downward so that it would be at least flush with top of head. If you don't understand what I'm saying, grap a garden hose with both hands about a foot apart. Then induce a bend part way between and pretend that is the point with the upper seal. Now apply a small amount of pressure from either end and you will realize that something needs to keep the seal centered, plus provide better sealing. And BTW, the added off centering occured above the double ring which sits down in the well, so it definitely was pushing against one side of the well and certainly breaking any seal that might have existed against the opposite side.
 
  #22  
Old 11-06-2013 | 09:57 PM
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From: VA
Originally Posted by twinskrewd
All hype no improvement with the aftermarket coils.
I run the Granatelli COP connectors & stock Motorcraft coils. 89,000 with no issues. The spark is plenty hot. It's able to overcome boost pressures from my supercharger and make the .035 gap without blowout. Seen plenty of folks making up to a 1000hp on stock coils with no issue.

I had coolant get on coils 1-4 after blowing a heater hose 2000 miles ago. No issue. Thought I had cleaned it up back then. Changed my plugs last night and found crap all down inside the coil recess for cylinder 3 & 4. Used a shop vac with a piece of 3/8 fuel line to suck out the crap. I normally do this when changing plugs anyway just to keep dirt & other particles from entering the cylinder when removing the plug.
Okay sounds good. Mine should be around your rwhp on the 150 jets. Do you run standard copper electrode plugs in stock heat range or a colder plug? Oem are motorcraft platinum plugs which I know aren't good for use on nitrous. I wanted a set of one heat range colder plugs and was going to close the stock gap from .054 to .035-.040 but I can only find stock heat range plugs for my 4.6 2v.
 
  #23  
Old 11-07-2013 | 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by E_Net_Rider
Think I will be researching orings. First I'll pull cop and check inside diameter of that head bore and then look for an oring that I can add at the point where the double ridge exists on boot. And consider what I can put under that top flange.
Something I've discovered after looking closely at the one unit I pulled will be used in consideration of a better solution. The COP for this vehicle have the angled boot and there is a slight but noticeable bend in the upper section of the boot. This has undoubtably occured because there is nothing to force the boot to stay straight to the point of that molded bend, unless you consider the undersized double rib that sits down in the well. That is, slight pressure upward on the boot from the way it slips over the plug and slight downward pressure from the way it is connected to the COP forces it to kink slightly more but also forces it off center of the top the well into head. And there is not much rubber on the boot to seal that hole into the well either. Dumb design.
To keep that small upper seal on boot centered they would have needed to extend the nipple on the coil downward so that it would be at least flush with top of head. If you don't understand what I'm saying, grap a garden hose with both hands about a foot apart. Then induce a bend part way between and pretend that is the point with the upper seal. Now apply a small amount of pressure from either end and you will realize that something needs to keep the seal centered, plus provide better sealing. And BTW, the added off centering occured above the double ring which sits down in the well, so it definitely was pushing against one side of the well and certainly breaking any seal that might have existed against the opposite side.
A thought occured this morning and I took a second look at old COP. Sure enough, it is worse than I thought, the off-centering effect. On the coil itself, the boot stop is on one side only and that is the opposite side of where the boot angle will try to push to relieve pressure on the boot. Looking carefully at the mounting angle of the COP (parallel to head) I see that the top seal has become inclined upward from head surface further deprecating the sealing ability.
Unless someone knows of a boot that solves these problems, I will be looking for an o-ring that will fit just below that top seal and fit snuggly into the top of head.
For those of you who live in a very dry climate this will likely be a non-issue. But for the rest of us, condensation alone will likely create issues, even if minor ones. I say that because I've thought back to where water could possibly have gotten into spark plug well. That was some time, weeks before it went from minor unsmooth idle and seemingly some power loss at midrange to a major miss and 40 miles later throwing MIL. Knowing that the water had to be there at least weeks, it appears to not get hot enough to boil off the water. That day it acted up, outside temp of 85 degrees and I had driven 75 miles prior to the event. And 55 more miles after the severe miss started. Also a few more short trips before pulling the COP.
My mind loaded with that info, it seems that condensation alone could be a problem and it is possible the water found could be just that accumulated over a period of time.
 
  #24  
Old 11-07-2013 | 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by E_Net_Rider
A thought occured this morning and I took a second look at old COP. Sure enough, ~~
My mind loaded with that info, it seems that condensation alone could be a problem and it is possible the water found could be just that accumulated over a period of time.
I'm now thinking that I may have stumbled upon the COP killer, that poor sealing and moisture. Or least a boot killer. And maybe it just not running at peak from cold start until it is hot enough to force any condensed moisture away.
If some moisture is present, getting it hot will saturate the air around the boot in the poorly sealed chamber. That is a condition that high voltage loves and makes it easier to arc through boot. That might be intermittant depending upon the moisture level among other factors. If it dries enough from heat the arcing might stop, that is assuming it has not been present long enough to create a carbon trail the spark will follow. Even with the arcing enough voltage could be present to fire the plug although likely it will be a weak spark.
Thus the difficulty of locating issue, no codes, and the shotgun approach of changing plugs and COPs.
Maybe one of you high end techs can answer a question about the mode 6. It seems that might give best answers and something i might look into acquiring. Specifically the number of misses that are counted, how long is that data kept in memory? Does not that get flushed after a period of time?
 



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