Will changing injectors to a higher flow and matching MAF create 60+ hp on a stock 5.4 motor? Some drunk mechanic told me so....Capt.

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Capt. America..,
1998 F-150 XLTSC...2WD.. . 4.10LS rear...auto E40D... 5.4L...Flairside... Ground effects... Billet Pedals... Billet Grill... Billet Brake lite... Oval Mirror... Bed rails... Bug Deflector... Wood Grain Kit...Fog lites... TPS...Velocity tube... K&N... ss Ford tag.,.Tinted Windows... overhead/floor consoles... Mood lights...Blue bulbs... Alarm...Radar...Dashmat... Fire/Ice rear window tint ...conspicuity reflectors... cd changer...mobil 1... Painted rear Drums... Helwing Sway Bar... Dual Exhaust... Halogen Back-up bulbs... clear corner lens...
Tail lens covers... Leather...Floor Mats... Seat covers...Tow Pkge...
Side window Louvers... Painted Brake calipers... Custom Captian America Paint Job...TRIPLE LED brake lights...Rain guards... Painted throttle body cover...sliding rear window...Superchip...Custom Gas cap holder...2" leveling shackels...Fox tail key chain...Clear turn signal bulbs..

 

Keyword: Drunk

[This message has been edited by fast46triton (edited 02-13-2000).]

 

Larger injectors and a larger meter will ALLOW you to add HP they will not do it alone, although the free-flowing meter may add a couple. HP comes from changes to heads, valves, cams and manifolds that allow more air to be ingested. The injectors merely supply the appropriate amount of fuel as instructed by the computer. Larger injectors of themselves will do nothing and may actually create drivability problems by running too rich if you try to operate below their effective range.

Approx HP limits at the flywheel for Ford injectors (.5 BSFC @90% duty cycle) are:

19 lb. - 275
24 lb. - 345
30 lb. - 430
36 lb. - 520

If you're going to build an engine to any of these levels, the injectors must be sized accordingly.

 

HI!... STRANGERANGER : What happens to be the stock injector size in the "99" 5.4? I am roughly running about 310 H.P right now and am wondering if I should upgrade to bigger injectors. Does anything have to be recalibrated (computer?) for the bigger injectors?

Thanks Neal

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NEAL [ the horsepower freak ] NEWMAN
'99' F-150 XLT SPORT, oxford white, reg cab shortbox stepside,5.4, auto, 4.10L.S, captain's chairs, bedliner, GTS carbon fiber headlight covers, **** CEPECK clear halogen driving lights, GTS slotted tailight covers (painted oxford white), FORD locking lug nuts, tinted windows,true duel exhaust with 2.5 inch mandrel bent pipes and FLOWMASTER 3 chamber mufflers with 3' tailpipes exiting before the rear wheel like the LIGHTNING, HELLWIG rear stabalizer bar, AUTOMETER guage pod and tranny temp guage, custom fabricated air intake trac and huge K/N filter, TPS mod, BELLTECH 2-inch rear drop, custom programed SUPERCHIP.

FUTURE MODS : JBA headers, ASP power pulleys, twin electric fans, traction bars, BAUMANN ENGINEERING shift kit, POWERAID spacer, AUTO METER oil preasure/ engine temp PHANTOM GUAGES and a KENNE BELL BLOWZILLA supercharger.
ESTIMATED H.P TO DATE : 310H.P / 405ft/lbs of torque.

OTHER TOYS : "83" PRO STREET FORD RANGER : 351-w stroked to 408c.i 625H.P (natural), 875H.P with 250H.P "BIG SHOT" N.O.S kit, tubbed (crome moly tubing), 12 point chrome moly roll cage, 4-link with coil overs, MUSTANG II front suspension, c-4 tranny (race prepped), 4000rpm stall converter(8 INCH), 3" chrome moly driveshaft,AUTOMETER guages, 15.50 MICKEY THOMPSON rear tires, 4" M/T front tires, CENTERLINE CON-VO PRO rims, fiberglass hood - bumper - prostock hood scoop, wishbone trac-link, two chrome moly driveshaft loops, 16 gallon RCI fuel cell,etc

 

Alright I'm ready for some engine mods. Heads, manifold , ect....Where do you get these items for a 5.4 lt engine?? Have time to shop but nowhere to buy...Capt.

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Capt. America..,
1998 F-150 XLTSC...2WD.. . 4.10LS rear...auto E40D... 5.4L...Flairside... Ground effects... Billet Pedals... Billet Grill... Billet Brake lite... Oval Mirror... Bed rails... Bug Deflector... Wood Grain Kit...Fog lites... TPS...Velocity tube... K&N... ss Ford tag.,.Tinted Windows... overhead/floor consoles... Mood lights...Blue bulbs... Alarm...Radar...Dashmat... Fire/Ice rear window tint ...conspicuity reflectors... cd changer...mobil 1... Painted rear Drums... Helwing Sway Bar... Dual Exhaust... Halogen Back-up bulbs... clear corner lens...
Tail lens covers... Leather...Floor Mats... Seat covers...Tow Pkge...
Side window Louvers... Painted Brake calipers... Custom Captian America Paint Job...TRIPLE LED brake lights...Rain guards... Painted throttle body cover...sliding rear window...Superchip...Custom Gas cap holder...2" leveling shackels...Fox tail key chain...Clear turn signal bulbs..

 

I don't have a clue about what Ford uses on the 5.4. I'm still living in a pushrod Windsor world and trying to figure out what my NEXT truck will be. At 260 stock HP Ford could have gone with 19# or 24#. They're color coded for easy identification. 24s are light blue, and 19s are red. Upgrading injectors requires recalibrating or replacing your meter for max. benefit

Your best bet for info on mod motor injection is probably Sean Hyland Motorsport at http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/frame.html

 

I have a 4.6 and it has 19lb/hour injectors. The 5.4 are probably the same. The computer should not have to be recalibrated although some people tell you it should. Putting bigger injectors in with out major engine mods will only hurt you. You can put a bigger mass air meter alone which will give minor improvement, probably not worth the money. With th e bigger injectors you will run to rich and the truck will run like crap. The best thing for you to do now is put a larger fuel pump in. And get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Bump up the pressure and put the bigger pump in and you will notice some power gains. Since I know my truck lacks some top end power. 19 lb/hr injectors run some mustangs with 400 plus HP and the have no problems. DOnt waste your time or $. go for the pump and regulator and you should be ok.

Neal I am not sure what your truck has in HP stock but with the mods you listed you probably dont have as much HP as you think. What they tell you exhaust gives you and a chip are not true. Those minor things really dont give you much HP. But many people count on what the boxes say. Which most of the time is a lie but it makes people buy the product because they think these are real HP gains. The only way to be sure is to have the car dyno'd. Anyway you dont need bigger injectors either go with the same mods I listed above, the pump and regulator. I dont know what size pump come sstock but you want to increase the Liters per hour by a good amount (50+). This will also make our horrible gas mileage even worse.

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1998 F150 XLT extra cab white,4.6 with off-road package
tint,rhino-lining, white face gauges, clear front marker lights, stull billet grille
16" lariat 5 stars with dunlop radial rover
285/75/16

 

4.6L and 5.4L both come from the factory with 19lb (orange body) injectors.

 

The adjustable fuel pressure regulators aren't always the answer. The adaptive strategies used by the EEC-IV and V processors can allow them to figure out there's a "problem" with fuel pressure. They measure fuel burned at the O2 sensors compared with what they think they injected and adjust the duty cycle of the injectors accordingly. It's better to do it right and upsize the injectors. There is no need to reprogram the processor, but you should have a mass air meter that is calibrated correctly if you're going to maximize both drivability and performance with the new injectors. The new injectors will require a new pump. For 24# you can get by with 110 lph, but get the 155, a little extra capacity never hurt.

 

Strange,
I have to disagree with the no change to calibration stance. A/F and timing are based on load calculations and engine speed. If you use the modification of the MAF output to compensate for the larger injectors, you are just fooling the computer.
Problem is that load will be calculated incorrectly and the spark tables and A/F tables will cause inefficient settings, especially at high engine speeds.
MANY Mustang folks have had to deal with major detonation at high rpm due to the nature of this "fake-out" modification. Then they put a different fuel reg or raise the pressure to compensate, but then the low-end gets screwed up.

Count on some drivability issues using this technique of "calibrating" injectors.

Get a chip burned for the application, its better than burned pistons.

Birdman

 

I have a Mustang which I made these mods to. I upgrade from stock 19lb/hr injectors to 24. I bought a new mass air and had it calibrated for 24lb/hr injectors. Never touched the computer, no chip no nohthing. And I have no problems. It runs great. I originally upgraded previous to my motor work and new heads and it did nothing but make the car run like crap. I put new edelbrock aluminum heads on, b303 cam put in the motor rebuilt with forged pistons and bored 30 over. The car still ran bad with the bigger injectors so i put stock back in. Once I upgrade to a new Intake upper and lower then the car excepted the new injectors and mass air and ran good. So I think it is a waste with out many motor mods. You need to increase air flow when you change to the large injectors and a new airbos and k&n filter does not increase the air flow enough ( not even close). When my car was stock I put in a 155lb/hr fuel pump and a pressure regulator and it increased performance dramaticly especially top end power where it lacked just like our trucks.
Not to disagree with you strange ranger but 110lb/hr injectors will not support 24lb an hour injectors properly.
I would go for a 110lb/hr pump with a regulator and you will notice a difference. Maybe even a 155 will work if you turn down the pressure a little. 19lb/hr can support 350 - 400 hp with out a problem, with the right pump and regulator. I have done alot of research on this when I was trying to diagnos my cars problems. I asked many people and read many of articles. And, like I kind of explained alot of trial and error work to figure out the best set ups.


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1998 F150 XLT extra cab white,4.6 with off-road package
tint,rhino-lining, white face gauges, clear front marker lights, stull billet grille
16" lariat 5 stars with dunlop radial rover
285/75/16

 

kmmon1
A 110 pump puts out about 177 lbs of fuel/hour (@s.g. = 0.73). 24 lb injectors @90% duty cycle require 173 lbs/hr. This leaves absolutely no excess, no margin for surge or anything else, but it is (barely) enough. I'm now running a 155 on my (GT-40 plus a bit)Mustang with 24# injectors and it has more top speed than it had with the 110, but it's not something I notice until 115+ mph. No appreciable difference in the lower gears. I have the "Cobra" processor and in stock trim Ford pulled out a lot of fuel and timing above 5500, so the car just sort of nosed over at speed. With a custom burned chip and the larger pump it keeps right on pulling. I suspect they both contributed to the improvement.

You're absolutely right about the need for mechanical mods to create HP and the problems with too much injector capacity screwing up drivability.

The tuners and other Mustang owners I've talked to were all equally adamant that the adjustable regulators were a bad idea because the computer will just work around them. You're the first person I've heard with a positive experience from tuning fuel pressure on a street driven 5.0. Did you keep the pressure up at all times or just crank it up when you took it out to play and then crank it back for normal driving? That might have kept the computer from learning too much too fast

 

stangeranger,

I did agree that a 110 would work but it would starve on top end just like your car did. I have dealt with similiar problems. If you were starving at those high speeds then you were probably starving at lower speeds to because it is the engines rpm's that determine that, it does not matter what speed but what rpm. Like you said though it is easier to notice the starvation at higer speeds then when tearing through the gears at lower speeds. I never changed my computer, neither did anyone else I know, I have an 87 mustang that was Califorina emissons so it had a mass air from the factory. But I have no problems with computer. I have my adjustable regulator turned up all the time it has no effects on my computer at all. Even when my car was stock and I bought it used it had an adjustable regulator on it and it was bumbed up then. And had a large pump in it, I bought the car use so I did not know what size pump for sure. But With the pressure turned up the car had much better top end power then when lowering it. Between me and my friends we have 8 mustangs and there were more. We had alot of practice and testing on all of them and I would recomend an adjustable regulator to anyone because I have not come across any problems with any of them that I installed. I neve put a chip in my car either because anyone I know who has done it with a modified motor said it was worthless unless you have one custom made. Everyone I know And we have one mustang that ran low 9's (street car of course) ran on a stock computer with no problems. My car runs great (not low 9's but it runs good). My car is a true street car nothing to radical, but it has been a long time trial and error method to get it to run good and stay running good. I am sure you have had the same troubles. But I think that you would agree with me that Our trucks stock or with minor bolt on mods do not need larger injectors. And when the box tells you the hp of some of these products they are not true hp. So as for anyone who wants to put in these larger injectors it will be a waste of time unless you get into some real motor work, Heads, intake, cam, not airbox mods, pulleys or computer chips.

 

I have to agree with birdman.
In my travels through the internet, I came upon a website that was for the Ford Trition motors,this person had alot of links that pretained to suppliers and other racing people.(trucks & cars)
The only reason I remember it, it was made on a WeBTV site,he did a super job.
I'll look around and see if I can come up with it..He had all aspects of racing,4 wheeling etc,etc....

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fordyfour

2000 4X2 Oxford
White/Harvest Gold
Flareside Lariat S/C
5.4L,3.55 Ls
Tow Package
True duals(Dynomax
Turbos), K&N Filter, with
a 71¢,3" PVC fresh air
tube
Super White Headlamps
JL 10" W0 sub (enclosed)
ALL amps and speakers
Kenwood
Superchip

 

HI!... KOMMON1 : I figure my h.p rating is about right on. I have tons of experience with h.p and torque ratings. I totally agree with you not to beleive what is writtin on the side of the box. Here is what the manufactures say their products give you in h.p and what I figure they are REALLY giving you.

SUPERCHIP - 28H.P What I figure - 28h.p. I know this for a fact because I know people who have had them tested on a dyno.

K&N FILTER and What I figure - 10H.P and
AIRAID COMBO thats with a 16" long, 6" - 15H.P by 4" K&N filter.

TRUE DUEL EXHAUST What I figure - 10H.P WITH 3 CHAMBER "RACE" FLOWMASTERS 2.5" STRAIGHT THROUGH DESIGN WITH ALL MANDREL MANDREL BENT TUBING - 15-20H.P
So KOMMON1 you can see that with my factory rated 260H.P that brings me up to roughly 308H.P. (I rounded it off to 310)

If I was to go by the manufactures H.P ratings that would mean that I have roughly 323H.p which I know is not true for my truck. How else would you explain my truck running 0-60mph in 6.3 seconds (4588LBS)and a 60 ft time of 1.9 seconds. I hope to get 14.90's out of it as soon as the drag strips here open up for the spring. Right now it's running 15.20's on the G-TECH PRO and that is with both my tires spinning for 10-15 feet on the holeshot! Read my signiture below, you will find that I am not "NEW" to the H.P/TQ game.


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NEAL [ the horsepower freak ] NEWMAN
'99' F-150 XLT SPORT, oxford white, reg cab shortbox stepside,5.4, auto, 4.10L.S, captain's chairs, bedliner, GTS carbon fiber headlight covers, **** CEPECK clear halogen driving lights, GTS slotted tailight covers (painted oxford white), FORD locking lug nuts, tinted windows,true duel exhaust with 2.5 inch mandrel bent pipes and FLOWMASTER 3 chamber mufflers with 3' tailpipes exiting before the rear wheel like the LIGHTNING, HELLWIG rear stabalizer bar, AUTOMETER guage pod and tranny temp guage, custom fabricated air intake trac and huge K/N filter, TPS mod, BELLTECH 2-inch rear drop, custom programed SUPERCHIP.

FUTURE MODS : JBA headers, ASP power pulleys, twin electric fans, traction bars, BAUMANN ENGINEERING shift kit, POWERAID spacer, AUTO METER oil preasure/ engine temp PHANTOM GUAGES and a KENNE BELL BLOWZILLA supercharger.
ESTIMATED H.P TO DATE : 310H.P / 405ft/lbs of torque.

OTHER TOYS : "83" PRO STREET FORD RANGER : 351-w stroked to 408c.i 625H.P (natural), 875H.P with 250H.P "BIG SHOT" N.O.S kit, tubbed (crome moly tubing), 12 point chrome moly roll cage, 4-link with coil overs, MUSTANG II front suspension, c-4 tranny (race prepped), 4000rpm stall converter(8 INCH), 3" chrome moly driveshaft,AUTOMETER guages, 15.50 MICKEY THOMPSON rear tires, 4" M/T front tires, CENTERLINE CON-VO PRO rims, fiberglass hood - bumper - prostock hood scoop, wishbone trac-link, two chrome moly driveshaft loops, 16 gallon RCI fuel cell,etc