If the dealer hooks the computer up to my truck
#1
07-15-2002 | 03:04 PM
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From: Minnesota
#3
07-15-2002 | 04:12 PM
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Ok.....thanks Jefflaw. I have a buddy that owns a 2002 F350 and he said the dealer told him some history that was on his computer, like that he was driving over 90mph at one point. I was just curious. I would think it would be easy enough for them these days to add some memory to those computers for problems just like this.......maybe not. Thanks!
#6
07-16-2002 | 07:52 AM
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From: Rochester, MI, USA
actually it depends
There could be some history data saved it in CU (control unit)...
But it is highly manufacturer specific even though they all claim to be OBDII compliant…
It depends on what the manufacturer wants to have logged in the unit, it depends on what the software the dealer runs and it depends on what the dealer is willing to "disclose" to you…
A while ago I was writing testing software for Alison transmissions, Bendix brakes and so on and I am telling you they have everything there including what cigarette brand the driver smokes… The list is endless: max speed, number of engine starts, number of run hours, av. run time, av. speed, av. fuel consumption… odometer is there also…
I did do anything for Ford though so I am not sure about Ford…but I believe there should be some history…
But it is highly manufacturer specific even though they all claim to be OBDII compliant…
It depends on what the manufacturer wants to have logged in the unit, it depends on what the software the dealer runs and it depends on what the dealer is willing to "disclose" to you…
A while ago I was writing testing software for Alison transmissions, Bendix brakes and so on and I am telling you they have everything there including what cigarette brand the driver smokes… The list is endless: max speed, number of engine starts, number of run hours, av. run time, av. speed, av. fuel consumption… odometer is there also…
I did do anything for Ford though so I am not sure about Ford…but I believe there should be some history…
#7
07-16-2002 | 08:11 AM
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#8
07-16-2002 | 08:41 AM
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From: kinston nc
Ok, if the truck just spins and doesnt start, and the light isnt on, there is not any freeze frame data or anything.
There is a PDA compatible software and cable, go to work for ford and you can get it, its about $1200, and requires a monthly subscription charged to a dealership P&A code. Im hoping to talk my service manager into buying me one.
But even with that, a crank, but no start is best diagnosed with very little tools and a lot of experience. First thing i do when one is dropped off the tow truck is to 1. see if the check engine light will come on with the key on, 2. see if it goes back off while cranking engine, 3. hit it with ether and see if it runs.
From there you know whether to look for PCM power problems, crank sensor problems, or lack of fuel. If it passes the first two steps, but wont try to run off ether, then get out the scan tool.
So what im saying is, you cant just hook a scan tool up and see why a no-start happened.
There is a PDA compatible software and cable, go to work for ford and you can get it, its about $1200, and requires a monthly subscription charged to a dealership P&A code. Im hoping to talk my service manager into buying me one.
But even with that, a crank, but no start is best diagnosed with very little tools and a lot of experience. First thing i do when one is dropped off the tow truck is to 1. see if the check engine light will come on with the key on, 2. see if it goes back off while cranking engine, 3. hit it with ether and see if it runs.
From there you know whether to look for PCM power problems, crank sensor problems, or lack of fuel. If it passes the first two steps, but wont try to run off ether, then get out the scan tool.
So what im saying is, you cant just hook a scan tool up and see why a no-start happened.
#9
07-16-2002 | 09:58 AM
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From: Seabrook,NH
AUTODIAG SOFTWARE EXTENDS AUTOMOTIVE DIAGNOSTICS TO HANDHELDS - DiagTek Introduces PDA Tool for Automotive Repair
Anaheim, California., June 25, 2002 – DiagTek, a personal digital assistant software company, has introduced AutoDiag, software for automotive repair professionals that extends automotive electronics diagnosis to Palm handheld computers.
AutoDiag offers a handheld solution that simplifies the process of automotive diagnostics. With AutoDiag, a vehicle’s airbag, anti-lock brakes and other electronic systems can be diagnosed for faults and these system faults can be easily cleared. Automobile repair professionals will have quick analysis of their vehicles. Repair hobbyists will be able to inexpensively investigate problems with their cars. Used-car buyers can thoroughly evaluate a vehicle before purchase. The company’s unique technology communicates with a vehicle’s electronics to determine any faults that may be present. This product provides customers with a diagnosis of their vehicle previously available only with expensive dealer analysis or custom equipment. Unlike the other PDA tools on the market, AutoDiag reads and clears faults from much more than just the powertrain/emissions system.
“AutoDiag provides automobile repair professionals and other automotive enthusiasts with access to critical information about their vehicles. This detailed information was previously unavailable at a reasonable cost.” said Eric Raphael, President of DiagTek. “Using AutoDiag, the automotive repair community can quickly home-in on faults and diagnose their vehicle’s electronic systems for rapid repair.”
Pricing, Availability, Distribution and Support
AutoDiag is available today for Ford and Lincoln/Mercury vehicle diagnostics at a special retail price of $249 U.S. Product photos, a list of vehicles and models covered, and ordering information is available on the DiagTek website http://www.diagtek.com. Up-to-date software information, new features and ordering information are available on the website as well.
A lot less than $1200 but may not do everything Jeff's would.
Anaheim, California., June 25, 2002 – DiagTek, a personal digital assistant software company, has introduced AutoDiag, software for automotive repair professionals that extends automotive electronics diagnosis to Palm handheld computers.
AutoDiag offers a handheld solution that simplifies the process of automotive diagnostics. With AutoDiag, a vehicle’s airbag, anti-lock brakes and other electronic systems can be diagnosed for faults and these system faults can be easily cleared. Automobile repair professionals will have quick analysis of their vehicles. Repair hobbyists will be able to inexpensively investigate problems with their cars. Used-car buyers can thoroughly evaluate a vehicle before purchase. The company’s unique technology communicates with a vehicle’s electronics to determine any faults that may be present. This product provides customers with a diagnosis of their vehicle previously available only with expensive dealer analysis or custom equipment. Unlike the other PDA tools on the market, AutoDiag reads and clears faults from much more than just the powertrain/emissions system.
“AutoDiag provides automobile repair professionals and other automotive enthusiasts with access to critical information about their vehicles. This detailed information was previously unavailable at a reasonable cost.” said Eric Raphael, President of DiagTek. “Using AutoDiag, the automotive repair community can quickly home-in on faults and diagnose their vehicle’s electronic systems for rapid repair.”
Pricing, Availability, Distribution and Support
AutoDiag is available today for Ford and Lincoln/Mercury vehicle diagnostics at a special retail price of $249 U.S. Product photos, a list of vehicles and models covered, and ordering information is available on the DiagTek website http://www.diagtek.com. Up-to-date software information, new features and ordering information are available on the website as well.
A lot less than $1200 but may not do everything Jeff's would.
Last edited by Norm; 07-16-2002 at 10:00 AM.
#10
07-16-2002 | 10:15 AM
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From: kinston nc
yea, its not going to do a lot of stuff that i would need it for, but you guys might could use it. I have to reprogram PCMs, program keys, set GEM parameters, configure ABS modules, etc....
Just beware that the average guy reading a code can get misled. Autozone reads codes now around here and you wouldnt beleive the problems they cause by selling parts that are mis-diagnosed. We have a messageboard at qcdealer.com and you should hear the funny stories of people that buy their own scan tools and read codes and buy parts. For example, any kind of O2 code is rarely due to a bad O2 sensor. You have to read trim tables and run tests to determine whats wrong, not just read codes. We have a binder thats 6 inches thick (and only covers one year model) that we have to use just to figure out what code problems really are. Other techs will know what im talking about (PCED). Also, knowing what the characteristics of each vehicle line are helps shortcut the diagnostic process. Like a 97 - 00 explorer with O2 codes, look at the long term fuel trim and then see when the last time intake gaskets were put on it. If it was before the last timing chain kit revision, then there you go, it needs gaskets. Or a 2.0 contour with O2 codes, most likely a bad mass air sensor. Would you think that if you read a code at home with a scan tool? What part would autozone tell you to buy?
Just beware that the average guy reading a code can get misled. Autozone reads codes now around here and you wouldnt beleive the problems they cause by selling parts that are mis-diagnosed. We have a messageboard at qcdealer.com and you should hear the funny stories of people that buy their own scan tools and read codes and buy parts. For example, any kind of O2 code is rarely due to a bad O2 sensor. You have to read trim tables and run tests to determine whats wrong, not just read codes. We have a binder thats 6 inches thick (and only covers one year model) that we have to use just to figure out what code problems really are. Other techs will know what im talking about (PCED). Also, knowing what the characteristics of each vehicle line are helps shortcut the diagnostic process. Like a 97 - 00 explorer with O2 codes, look at the long term fuel trim and then see when the last time intake gaskets were put on it. If it was before the last timing chain kit revision, then there you go, it needs gaskets. Or a 2.0 contour with O2 codes, most likely a bad mass air sensor. Would you think that if you read a code at home with a scan tool? What part would autozone tell you to buy?
Last edited by kidtriton; 07-16-2002 at 10:17 AM.
#11
07-16-2002 | 10:45 AM
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From: Rochester, MI, USA
I agree with jefflaws
I am not sure if it would be interesting but…
Actually there are two DIFFERENT kinds of diagnostic software… And I'm not talking about platform – it might be for hand-held device, laptop, PDA or whatever.
The first one is publicly available and allows primary (if not only) to read fault codes from PCM. You can drop/remove the codes also…
The second kind is so called "system" software and it's available for dealers (only). It allows you to do everything with PCM, including viewing /dropping fault codes. For instance, you can change odometer settings
enable/disable ABS brakes, change min/max cruise control speed, max speed… whatever. And view vehicle history also...
I believe you cannot buy it freely.
BTW: it looks like a superchip is reprogramming the PCM also but it has a bunch of predefined parameters which works together. If you would have the "sys" soft and know what params to change you would not need the superchip
Hope that helps
Actually there are two DIFFERENT kinds of diagnostic software… And I'm not talking about platform – it might be for hand-held device, laptop, PDA or whatever.
The first one is publicly available and allows primary (if not only) to read fault codes from PCM. You can drop/remove the codes also…
The second kind is so called "system" software and it's available for dealers (only). It allows you to do everything with PCM, including viewing /dropping fault codes. For instance, you can change odometer settings
enable/disable ABS brakes, change min/max cruise control speed, max speed… whatever. And view vehicle history also...I believe you cannot buy it freely.
BTW: it looks like a superchip is reprogramming the PCM also but it has a bunch of predefined parameters which works together. If you would have the "sys" soft and know what params to change you would not need the superchip
Hope that helps
#12
07-16-2002 | 10:58 AM
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From: Windsor,Ontario,Canada
#13
07-17-2002 | 01:11 AM
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From: Northern Kentucky
I would love to get my hands on a STAR or Rotundra or whatever software and diagnostic tools a good dealerships uses. I'll be happy when I can get one that reads manufacturer specific codes and PIDS.
If Jeff gets a dealership tool I'll just have to move out and live next to him. Maybe we can figure out what parameters to change and what to.
I have seen equipment out there that the public/professional can but to program the PCM. Not sure if it's the EEC-V or newer system but it was for OBD II systems. It was like 3-4 grand and in some tool catalog I was looking at.
I'm sure if they really wanted to dig deep they can no about whatever they want/need to from your computer as far as how the engine is doing and how it is driven. Think about it, how the car is driven is a major factor in any driveabilty problem.
I work for Advance Auto and the factor of mis diangnosing a car is a major factor why we do not do it. I have a friend that works for Zone and to my understanding according to their company policy they are to just read the code and give it to the customer. From there it is the customer's job to figure out what to buy. Trouble is 99% of the people do not realize even though all these computers help you find the problem they may not pinpoint the exact problem, just liek Jeff explained above with the Explorer and Contour bit.
Right now the Auto x-ray w/ pc link and manufacturer specfic updates seems to be the best/cheapest way to go for the home mechanic that likes to dabble with his own stuff. I have a fair knowledge of cars and I still take mine into Ford every now and then for professional help from the people who have access to all the answers. I just usally go a little more prepared and with an idea in my head of what it is. So far I have done pretty well (2 out of 3) determing what's wrong.
If Jeff gets a dealership tool I'll just have to move out and live next to him. Maybe we can figure out what parameters to change and what to.
I have seen equipment out there that the public/professional can but to program the PCM. Not sure if it's the EEC-V or newer system but it was for OBD II systems. It was like 3-4 grand and in some tool catalog I was looking at.
I'm sure if they really wanted to dig deep they can no about whatever they want/need to from your computer as far as how the engine is doing and how it is driven. Think about it, how the car is driven is a major factor in any driveabilty problem.
I work for Advance Auto and the factor of mis diangnosing a car is a major factor why we do not do it. I have a friend that works for Zone and to my understanding according to their company policy they are to just read the code and give it to the customer. From there it is the customer's job to figure out what to buy. Trouble is 99% of the people do not realize even though all these computers help you find the problem they may not pinpoint the exact problem, just liek Jeff explained above with the Explorer and Contour bit.
Right now the Auto x-ray w/ pc link and manufacturer specfic updates seems to be the best/cheapest way to go for the home mechanic that likes to dabble with his own stuff. I have a fair knowledge of cars and I still take mine into Ford every now and then for professional help from the people who have access to all the answers. I just usally go a little more prepared and with an idea in my head of what it is. So far I have done pretty well (2 out of 3) determing what's wrong.