FIPK and intake temp
#1
07-31-2002, 04:17 PM
FIPK and intake temp
Starting a new thread to move the data from the Electric fans on at what temp, and a place holder for the K&N FIPK vs WMS V tube and JLP air ram airbox data once completed.
The intake temp is taken with Auto Tap software under Chicago area driving conditions as I can take them.
I do believe that Chicago is 575' above sea level, and this might make your data varry from what is posted here ( higher or lower elevations ).
The air ram on the drivers side is already in place, with the brake duct in the lower air dam, and the 3" hose up the drivers side wheel well, into the stock inlet.
Electric Fan thread that was started by the Intake temp.
https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...threadid=85257
The intake temp is taken with Auto Tap software under Chicago area driving conditions as I can take them.
I do believe that Chicago is 575' above sea level, and this might make your data varry from what is posted here ( higher or lower elevations ).
The air ram on the drivers side is already in place, with the brake duct in the lower air dam, and the 3" hose up the drivers side wheel well, into the stock inlet.
Electric Fan thread that was started by the Intake temp.
https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...threadid=85257
Last edited by SSCULLY; 08-19-2002 at 11:22 PM.
#2
07-31-2002, 04:21 PM
Some additional Data on intake temp
[ moved from electric fans thread ]
Did a short drive test today with the HEC inst. and the auto tap running.
The outside:
ambient temp : 92* F
humidity : 38%
Heat index : 93* F
The reading from the HEC : 94* C
The coolant temp reading from autotap : 201* F
Convert 94* C to F = 201.2* F ( seems that autotap is taking thsi from the same place as the HEC inst. reading.
I took out the noise from false readins ( some eng temps in the 900* F range ? ) and when I look it over the intake temp readings can go as high as 194* F with the K&N FIPK.
This goes with a temp reading on the truck of 99* F ( taken just left of the hood latch and under the plastic cover ).
I took the reading of MAFS rate rather then trcuk speed, but I can look over the MAF rate and take a guess at what the truck was doing.
The lower the MAF rate, the lower the throttle was, so when the truck is standing still the intake temp climbs from the 127-129* F range to the 194* F range.
This is not a shock to me, the perf on 100* day the accel from a stand still is for crap, but once it is moving, the perf is back into play. This seems to confirm that once the truck is moving, the engine compartment is cleared of the super heated air, and continues on its way. The claims of that area of the engine does not get much air are not correct, adn once the MAF rate increase, the intake temp drops back to the ~ 129* F range again.
Once I get another chance, I will take a log of intake temp vs speed only, and leave out the MAF rate, and coolant temp.
Did a short drive test today with the HEC inst. and the auto tap running.
The outside:
ambient temp : 92* F
humidity : 38%
Heat index : 93* F
The reading from the HEC : 94* C
The coolant temp reading from autotap : 201* F
Convert 94* C to F = 201.2* F ( seems that autotap is taking thsi from the same place as the HEC inst. reading.
I took out the noise from false readins ( some eng temps in the 900* F range ? ) and when I look it over the intake temp readings can go as high as 194* F with the K&N FIPK.
This goes with a temp reading on the truck of 99* F ( taken just left of the hood latch and under the plastic cover ).
I took the reading of MAFS rate rather then trcuk speed, but I can look over the MAF rate and take a guess at what the truck was doing.
The lower the MAF rate, the lower the throttle was, so when the truck is standing still the intake temp climbs from the 127-129* F range to the 194* F range.
This is not a shock to me, the perf on 100* day the accel from a stand still is for crap, but once it is moving, the perf is back into play. This seems to confirm that once the truck is moving, the engine compartment is cleared of the super heated air, and continues on its way. The claims of that area of the engine does not get much air are not correct, adn once the MAF rate increase, the intake temp drops back to the ~ 129* F range again.
Once I get another chance, I will take a log of intake temp vs speed only, and leave out the MAF rate, and coolant temp.
Last edited by SSCULLY; 07-31-2002 at 04:45 PM.
#3
07-31-2002, 06:16 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not to take away from a ram air mod, but I am a bit pescimestic about how much cooler air this will put into the air intake verses the air coming through the front grille area.
If one is sitting still it seems it could actually be less due to the resistance of the ducting. Once your moving it seems the the air would take the path of least resistance, which would be through the grilles.
Rocks
If one is sitting still it seems it could actually be less due to the resistance of the ducting. Once your moving it seems the the air would take the path of least resistance, which would be through the grilles.
Rocks
#4
07-31-2002, 06:50 PM
That is exactly the task
You got it 100%.
I don't know either, and that is why I am taking the logs on the intake temp to find out what the delta ( if any ) is between an open element FIPK ( K&N and the likes ) vs an enclosed air intake.
I hope to try to put actual data together in short order the either proves or diproves the FIPK is a bad deal ( sheer experiment )
The open item is what the RWHP is between the 2. Maybe I'll bring both to a Dyno center after the fact, and test the 2 configs ( if there is enough delta on the intake temps, that could also be the same between the 2. )
Like I said in the other thread, this could be all for not, and it might wind up being a load of $h!t !
So far all I have seen on the topis is:
open FIPK some say best, for best amount of air, others say not good, too hot air.
Close element : Some say best for external air, not hot engine compartment others say restricted air flow.
Hope to add something beside an opinion, speculation, or marketing material to this test ???
I don't know either, and that is why I am taking the logs on the intake temp to find out what the delta ( if any ) is between an open element FIPK ( K&N and the likes ) vs an enclosed air intake.
I hope to try to put actual data together in short order the either proves or diproves the FIPK is a bad deal ( sheer experiment )
The open item is what the RWHP is between the 2. Maybe I'll bring both to a Dyno center after the fact, and test the 2 configs ( if there is enough delta on the intake temps, that could also be the same between the 2. )
Like I said in the other thread, this could be all for not, and it might wind up being a load of $h!t !
So far all I have seen on the topis is:
open FIPK some say best, for best amount of air, others say not good, too hot air.
Close element : Some say best for external air, not hot engine compartment others say restricted air flow.
Hope to add something beside an opinion, speculation, or marketing material to this test ???
#5
07-31-2002, 10:00 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SSCULLY,
A couple of the factors that I would like to see are,
1) Temp. under closed hood while rolling vs Temp under closed hood sitting.
2)Affect temp rise at intake has on actual H.P. vs lower temps from the stock intake(cooler from outside of truck).
What type of tool is that your checking all these temps. with?
I think I want one of those. Did you get it from an internet source?
Rocks
A couple of the factors that I would like to see are,
1) Temp. under closed hood while rolling vs Temp under closed hood sitting.
2)Affect temp rise at intake has on actual H.P. vs lower temps from the stock intake(cooler from outside of truck).
What type of tool is that your checking all these temps. with?
I think I want one of those. Did you get it from an internet source?
Rocks
#6
07-31-2002, 10:25 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rocks
A couple of the factors that I would like to see are,
1) Temp. under closed hood while rolling vs Temp under closed hood sitting.
That is what I had to extraplate this time. I only had 3 points logging, and the temp thread took one of them. The other 2 I had down as MAF rate, intake Temp. I need to recollect the intake temp with vech speed. I took teh MAF rate as an indication, that is how I got the moving temps of 127-129* F to the standing temp of 194* F. All this was actual driving, hook firmly latched shut.
2)Affect temp rise at intake has on actual H.P. vs lower temps from the stock intake(cooler from outside of truck).
Don't have a HP log that I have found yet. I have engine load (?) I think this is where I will need to run 2 dynos with the hood closed, with the 2 intakes. By time I am done, I should be able to swap the setup in under 10 min for how many fittings I have done already
What type of tool is that your checking all these temps. with?
I think I want one of those. Did you get it from an internet source?
This is the AutoTap software that I am using to log the data points.
http://www.autotap.com/
It is almost 500.00 for the hardware and the full set, you can get a Ford only for cheaper.
A couple of the factors that I would like to see are,
1) Temp. under closed hood while rolling vs Temp under closed hood sitting.
That is what I had to extraplate this time. I only had 3 points logging, and the temp thread took one of them. The other 2 I had down as MAF rate, intake Temp. I need to recollect the intake temp with vech speed. I took teh MAF rate as an indication, that is how I got the moving temps of 127-129* F to the standing temp of 194* F. All this was actual driving, hook firmly latched shut.
2)Affect temp rise at intake has on actual H.P. vs lower temps from the stock intake(cooler from outside of truck).
Don't have a HP log that I have found yet. I have engine load (?) I think this is where I will need to run 2 dynos with the hood closed, with the 2 intakes. By time I am done, I should be able to swap the setup in under 10 min for how many fittings I have done already
What type of tool is that your checking all these temps. with?
I think I want one of those. Did you get it from an internet source?
This is the AutoTap software that I am using to log the data points.
http://www.autotap.com/
It is almost 500.00 for the hardware and the full set, you can get a Ford only for cheaper.
#7
08-01-2002, 06:11 PM
logging session #2 for K&N FIPK
Here we go the second round of intake temps. Longer drive then the the logging session #1.
The outside:
ambient temp : 93* F
humidity : 56%
Heat index : 104* F
I took the readings for this session with :
1. Engine RPM
2. Intake Temp
3. MAF rate
4. Vech Speed
The truck was already driven when this log was taken ( took the readings on the way home ). Engine at temp ( fans were cycling )
The starting intake temp was 131* in park. as I pulled through the subdivision, the intake temp rose to 133*, then back down to 129*, when I was at the exit to the subdivision. After pulling on to the road, ( speed limit 55 mph ) in less then 2 min ( 1.9 min driving upto 65 mph ) , the intake temp was down to 108*. an additional 2.2 min later the intake temp was down to 106*.
Total time 129* to 106* intake temp, at upto 65 mph 4.1 min. with the outside air ambient air temp of 93*, heat index of 104* ( truck temp read 98* again with the sensor at the front of the truck.
The majority of the time driving at 50 to 65 mph the intake temp ran 106* - 111* F.
Next light the intake temp takes off to 140* and the traffic did not move as fast, toped out at ~ 40 mph and the intake temp hung in the 138* range.
Once the traffic opened up again ( looking it over I got upto 72 mph holy crap ! ) the intake temp dropped to 108* again.
Remainder fo the driving was stop and go topping out at 29 mph and the intake temp hung in 136 to 138* range.
Seems the engine compartment clears itself out of heated air in at speeds of 55 mph +.
Don't have the WMS V tube yet to put the other airbox in, for now I might collect some more logs if I have time. More data smooths out the curve more.
I have both sets of files in excel format if anyone wants me to email them.
The outside:
ambient temp : 93* F
humidity : 56%
Heat index : 104* F
I took the readings for this session with :
1. Engine RPM
2. Intake Temp
3. MAF rate
4. Vech Speed
The truck was already driven when this log was taken ( took the readings on the way home ). Engine at temp ( fans were cycling )
The starting intake temp was 131* in park. as I pulled through the subdivision, the intake temp rose to 133*, then back down to 129*, when I was at the exit to the subdivision. After pulling on to the road, ( speed limit 55 mph ) in less then 2 min ( 1.9 min driving upto 65 mph ) , the intake temp was down to 108*. an additional 2.2 min later the intake temp was down to 106*.
Total time 129* to 106* intake temp, at upto 65 mph 4.1 min. with the outside air ambient air temp of 93*, heat index of 104* ( truck temp read 98* again with the sensor at the front of the truck.
The majority of the time driving at 50 to 65 mph the intake temp ran 106* - 111* F.
Next light the intake temp takes off to 140* and the traffic did not move as fast, toped out at ~ 40 mph and the intake temp hung in the 138* range.
Once the traffic opened up again ( looking it over I got upto 72 mph holy crap ! ) the intake temp dropped to 108* again.
Remainder fo the driving was stop and go topping out at 29 mph and the intake temp hung in 136 to 138* range.
Seems the engine compartment clears itself out of heated air in at speeds of 55 mph +.
Don't have the WMS V tube yet to put the other airbox in, for now I might collect some more logs if I have time. More data smooths out the curve more.
I have both sets of files in excel format if anyone wants me to email them.
Trending Topics
#8
08-01-2002, 08:08 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SSCULLY,
I would love to see those logs.
(Got them, Thanks SSCULLY.)
I have the auto tap on it's way. It will give me something to compare my set up with.
I am pleasantly surprised by how well the engine compartment cools off at highway speeds.
It seems to me that if I am in traffic, I can't take advantage of higher performances anyway(unless I want to do one of those monster truck things and run over someone).
Rocks
I would love to see those logs.
(Got them, Thanks SSCULLY.)
I have the auto tap on it's way. It will give me something to compare my set up with.
I am pleasantly surprised by how well the engine compartment cools off at highway speeds.
It seems to me that if I am in traffic, I can't take advantage of higher performances anyway(unless I want to do one of those monster truck things and run over someone).
Rocks
Last edited by Rocks; 08-01-2002 at 09:12 PM.
#9
08-01-2002, 08:19 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#10
08-01-2002, 08:26 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Something I have thought about is the true merit of a heat shield.
Since the heat is in an enclosed compartment and rising to the hood and surrounding the inlet, how could a heat shield do anything other than make us feel good?
I am thinking that the only real solution is to get the heat out of that engine compartment through the use of a functional hood scoop to allow better airflow.
Rocks
Since the heat is in an enclosed compartment and rising to the hood and surrounding the inlet, how could a heat shield do anything other than make us feel good?
I am thinking that the only real solution is to get the heat out of that engine compartment through the use of a functional hood scoop to allow better airflow.
Rocks
Last edited by Rocks; 08-01-2002 at 08:30 PM.
#11
08-01-2002, 08:57 PM
I'll let you know how the JLP air box ( which is a 5 sided box, open top against the hood liner.
I guess an intake that is either cermaic or plastic ( incl the air box ) is the best bet for miminal heat soak. Don't know for sure....
Right now I have a direct feed up the fender to the opening, this might have some impact on the engine compartment clearing off the heat...might ?? I am not holding to that.
With the JLP box I might just have this infront of the hole, so at stand still it is not trying to pull air up a 3" straw that runs to the front of the truck. Later I'll post the pics with the air ram setup on the drivers side.
So far what I see I have tossed a bunch of money down the toilet. 108* intake temp...where are these suposed great heat waves that the open element FIPK is to be seeing. I am begining to think the WMS V tube statement about every 11* increase is a loss of 1HP might be true, but I am wondering if I will even see a delta of 11*. This would mean a loss of 1 HP, and the POSSIABLE loss of MAF flow rate...where does it wind up at ? Lower RWHP ?? Don't know for sure.
I will be able to couple this with the MAF flow rate, to see if the open element FIPK is puling more air ( i.e. the Iceman and WMS that still use the stock air box. I am not even too sure if the stock opening is increased on these).
Unless someone is going to hog out the opening to 4", and then try to run a air flow hose of some type over the fender cover ( doubt a 4" would fit under it, the 3" was tight ) I don't think the MAF flow rate will be the same.
All in the time it takes to get the WMS V tube I'll know.
If the experiment is a failure...I'll have a something for sale
The other option is a ram air hood, with an enclosed functional air box. Don't know how it would look....kind of lop sidded to the drivers side I guess <g>
BTW Rocks...you got mail.
I guess an intake that is either cermaic or plastic ( incl the air box ) is the best bet for miminal heat soak. Don't know for sure....
Right now I have a direct feed up the fender to the opening, this might have some impact on the engine compartment clearing off the heat...might ?? I am not holding to that.
With the JLP box I might just have this infront of the hole, so at stand still it is not trying to pull air up a 3" straw that runs to the front of the truck. Later I'll post the pics with the air ram setup on the drivers side.
So far what I see I have tossed a bunch of money down the toilet. 108* intake temp...where are these suposed great heat waves that the open element FIPK is to be seeing. I am begining to think the WMS V tube statement about every 11* increase is a loss of 1HP might be true, but I am wondering if I will even see a delta of 11*. This would mean a loss of 1 HP, and the POSSIABLE loss of MAF flow rate...where does it wind up at ? Lower RWHP ?? Don't know for sure.
I will be able to couple this with the MAF flow rate, to see if the open element FIPK is puling more air ( i.e. the Iceman and WMS that still use the stock air box. I am not even too sure if the stock opening is increased on these).
Unless someone is going to hog out the opening to 4", and then try to run a air flow hose of some type over the fender cover ( doubt a 4" would fit under it, the 3" was tight ) I don't think the MAF flow rate will be the same.
All in the time it takes to get the WMS V tube I'll know.
If the experiment is a failure...I'll have a something for sale
The other option is a ram air hood, with an enclosed functional air box. Don't know how it would look....kind of lop sidded to the drivers side I guess <g>
BTW Rocks...you got mail.
Last edited by SSCULLY; 08-02-2002 at 01:13 PM.
#12
08-01-2002, 09:36 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SSCULLY,
If the "ram air" mod your expeimenting with is "forcing" air into your MAF, this could cause you some problems.
I have been told of some issues with the IAT and timing issues being off. I don't know all the exact details, but be carefull not to cause some other kind of problem.
As for the hood scoop, I was invisioning a reverse one with the opening towards the window to allow the air entering from the front to circulate the heat out better by exiting out towards the window better.
It seems like this would reduce the heat in the engine compartment and still not restrict any air flow to the intake, allowing us to still take advantage of the extra surface area of our FIPK.
Rocks
If the "ram air" mod your expeimenting with is "forcing" air into your MAF, this could cause you some problems.
I have been told of some issues with the IAT and timing issues being off. I don't know all the exact details, but be carefull not to cause some other kind of problem.
As for the hood scoop, I was invisioning a reverse one with the opening towards the window to allow the air entering from the front to circulate the heat out better by exiting out towards the window better.
It seems like this would reduce the heat in the engine compartment and still not restrict any air flow to the intake, allowing us to still take advantage of the extra surface area of our FIPK.
Rocks
#13
08-01-2002, 10:50 PM
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Anchorage
Posts: 1,167
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#14
08-02-2002, 10:54 AM
Just to let you know, I am only using the term ram air b/c that is the term JLP uses. I don't know if a purest would be happy with me <g>
The hose is run from the front of the truck to the opening in the front fender,
Right now it is just "there" as the K&N is still on ( what is that about 6-8" from the fender ? ).
Once the JLP airbox goes in, the filter sits in the box, but on the one I have the filter itself is not attached to the hose in the fender. The airbox it, and there is ~3" from the filter to the edge of the box. There are other JLP products there the filter is attached to the hose routed through the fender, but this is not that one.
The second routing in the bottom of the box is about 2" from the side of the element.
The top of the airbox is open, so the system cannot be pressurized with the hoses pumping air in at higher speeds, and "spill over" that might occur is dumped out the top of the box.
The hose route and pic of the brake duct from the front are in this galery :
https://www.f150online.com/galleries...w.cfm?num=1916
As it worked out I could not use the brake duct parts that came with the JLP kit b/c of the PIAA air dam. Had I has a regular air dam on the truck still it could have worked, but this seems to have a rather large scoop mounted just below the lower air dam on the L. If you check out JLP's support section, they show the step by step so you can get an idea of it, but this is for a different kit.
The parts from pitstopusa.com were failry cheap:
Brake Duct: ALL 42141 ( 5"x9-3/4" ) 17.99 each
Duct hose : QPR60-20 : 10' of 3" neoprene hose : 45.49.
I have yet to run the second one from the pass side, but I think 10' is enough for both sides.
Measure out where you'd put them, to see if you'd use a different size brake duct, mine were selected for the PIAA air dam.
I'll have to keep an eye on the MAF flow rate, to make sure with the JLP franken FIPK that is does not drive up the flow rate and cause problems. I actually think the flow rate will be lower then the K&N on the start up..just a swag right now.
Thanks foe the heads up Rocks, it is a valid point.
On the hood, ok now that makes more sense, I was thinking of a AAD air ram hood, where it is pushed in at the front.
Jupiterak, take a look at the brake duct parts this might be what you are looking for. Even if you don't pull the hose out at the top of the fender and connect it, this might be what you are looking for. Troll the web site, it is actuall a low cost investment to pump the air up the fender wall. The 3" hose fit, it was slightly tight, but works. I just need to get some black ABS plastic, and form it around the hose part that shows on the fender cover, and pop rivit it over it ( curve it with a heat gun first ).
ROUSHFAN-1 shows the pass side air duct installed, to give you an idea. I am not that far yet. If the heat shield you fab up, only has a bottom and a back side, this might do it ( that is my fall back with the JLP kit if I loose a great amount of MAF flow rate. )
Think that is it...long enough post though
The hose is run from the front of the truck to the opening in the front fender,
Right now it is just "there" as the K&N is still on ( what is that about 6-8" from the fender ? ).
Once the JLP airbox goes in, the filter sits in the box, but on the one I have the filter itself is not attached to the hose in the fender. The airbox it, and there is ~3" from the filter to the edge of the box. There are other JLP products there the filter is attached to the hose routed through the fender, but this is not that one.
The second routing in the bottom of the box is about 2" from the side of the element.
The top of the airbox is open, so the system cannot be pressurized with the hoses pumping air in at higher speeds, and "spill over" that might occur is dumped out the top of the box.
The hose route and pic of the brake duct from the front are in this galery :
https://www.f150online.com/galleries...w.cfm?num=1916
As it worked out I could not use the brake duct parts that came with the JLP kit b/c of the PIAA air dam. Had I has a regular air dam on the truck still it could have worked, but this seems to have a rather large scoop mounted just below the lower air dam on the L. If you check out JLP's support section, they show the step by step so you can get an idea of it, but this is for a different kit.
The parts from pitstopusa.com were failry cheap:
Brake Duct: ALL 42141 ( 5"x9-3/4" ) 17.99 each
Duct hose : QPR60-20 : 10' of 3" neoprene hose : 45.49.
I have yet to run the second one from the pass side, but I think 10' is enough for both sides.
Measure out where you'd put them, to see if you'd use a different size brake duct, mine were selected for the PIAA air dam.
I'll have to keep an eye on the MAF flow rate, to make sure with the JLP franken FIPK that is does not drive up the flow rate and cause problems. I actually think the flow rate will be lower then the K&N on the start up..just a swag right now.
Thanks foe the heads up Rocks, it is a valid point.
On the hood, ok now that makes more sense, I was thinking of a AAD air ram hood, where it is pushed in at the front.
Jupiterak, take a look at the brake duct parts this might be what you are looking for. Even if you don't pull the hose out at the top of the fender and connect it, this might be what you are looking for. Troll the web site, it is actuall a low cost investment to pump the air up the fender wall. The 3" hose fit, it was slightly tight, but works. I just need to get some black ABS plastic, and form it around the hose part that shows on the fender cover, and pop rivit it over it ( curve it with a heat gun first ).
ROUSHFAN-1 shows the pass side air duct installed, to give you an idea. I am not that far yet. If the heat shield you fab up, only has a bottom and a back side, this might do it ( that is my fall back with the JLP kit if I loose a great amount of MAF flow rate. )
Think that is it...long enough post though
#15
08-02-2002, 11:49 AM
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting post. I've been doing an experiment for a while now on underhood temps.
I have a MAC intake on mine. A temp probe is attached about 2 inches behind the air filter.
While idling the temp will rise to greater than 122 F (my probe only goes to 122).
When driving, the underhood temp stays at 3-4 degrees above the outside air temp (as listed on the overhead console display). This is when driving above 35mph. When driving below 35mph I found that there was to much stop & go traffic get any constant temperatures.
I have a MAC intake on mine. A temp probe is attached about 2 inches behind the air filter.
While idling the temp will rise to greater than 122 F (my probe only goes to 122).
When driving, the underhood temp stays at 3-4 degrees above the outside air temp (as listed on the overhead console display). This is when driving above 35mph. When driving below 35mph I found that there was to much stop & go traffic get any constant temperatures.