Here is the TSB 13332 you were asking about.

TSB # 13332
1997-1999 EXPED/NAV/E&F-SERIES- COLD STARTUP KNOCK-WINDSOR ENGINES ONLY.
INFORM THE CUSTOMER THIS WILL NOT AFFECT OPERATION OR LONG TERM DURABILITY. TO REPAIR, REPLACE THE ENGINE.
****** AN IMPROVEMENT WAS INCORPORATED IN THE NEW ENGINE PRODUCTION ON 4/15/1999. THE SAME IMPROVEMENT WAS IMPLEMENTED IN FQR ENGINES. ANY VEHICLE WITH A PRODUCTION DATE AFTER 4/15/1999 DOES NOT QUALIFY FOR ENGINE REPLACEMENT.FOR FUTURE INQUIRIES, CALL THE WINDSOR PLANT HOTLINE ONLY IF THE ENGINE IS A 1999 4.6/5.4L OR A 1997 -1999 6.8L PRODUCED BEFORE 4/15/1999.

 

===================================
02 MAR 2,000 (Texas Independence Day + 164
Years)

For: Dustoff -- I read you load and clear
and agree wholeheartedly with the way you
feel -- the BIG pinch-point, according to
some things I have read, will be when
Comrade President X declares gasoline to be
a "controlled substance" and hands the
"authority to issue prescriptions" to your
local police or to a specially-appointed
"environmental board," who will also pass
on your need to have ANY vehicle which does
not deliver AT LEAST 80 MILES-PER-GALLON.
(I view the 80 mile-per-gallon car as
Lenin's rope -- don't be fooled by the
demise of the Soviet Union -- their State
was INTENDED to "wither away.")

For: cramer -- I am not aware of piston-slap
in recent small-block Fords and doubt it has
any relevance to your issue. Without having
the vehicle under my nose, all I can say is:
1. It's well known that many firms, even
sometimes dealers, either fail to actually
change oil/filter (just wipe the old filter
clean) and bill for the job. Others may
use inferior oils/filters and charge for the
good stuff.
2. I would hope your mechanic knows what he
is talking about. (No -- a "thrown rod" does
not ALWAYS stick out the side of the block.)
I have seen mechanics mistake a jammed
starter drive for a thrown rod -- I have no
way of doing a "remote diagnosis" and hence
have no specific diagnosis to offer -- the
above is merely an attempt to throw a bit of
light on the matter, and I absolutely DO NOT
mean to impune the ability/honesty of him/
those with whom you have dealt/are dealing
with.
3. If it IS a thrown rod, yes, you could
get away with a cheaper job -- it's just a
question of how poor of a job you will settle
for. You might get a first-class rebuild
from a non-dealer for $1,500.00 less, but
I wouldn't truly expect it. Personally, I
hate "turned" cranks, but few agree with me.
4. If I were faced with such problem, and
there IS a thrown rod, I'd be inclined to
go to a first-rate performance shop and get
re-build with lighter-but-stronger (not
aluminum) rods and forged pistons, YES, EVEN
AT THE COST OF A LITTLE COLD "PISTON-SLAP."
Other changes? Maybe -- Maybe not -- depends
on usage. This may be totally inappropriate
for your situation -- just my thoughts. You
would get a little performance enhancement
and, presumably, marginally better fuel
mileage.
GOOD LUCK!



------------------
LOGICALMARTIAN

 

Having just watched this week's The X-Files, I'm perhaps still in the 'conspiricy-theory' mode -- and cannot help but wonder if Ford is replacing engines because they don't want anyone actually opening one of the errant ones up and discovering a blatantly-gross engineering error.

Has anyone actually Seen what's going on in them?

The truth is out there...

------------------
Y2K™

XLT SC SB 5.4L 3.73LS

 

Where can I find out more about piston slaping?

 

My 5.4L was manufactured on 9-09-99 and had piston slap. My dealer told me that piston slap was a problem on all 5.4L motors manufactured before October 99. I just had my motor replaced with one built on 2-11-00. All seems good so far.

------------------
2000 F-150 5.4L XLT Flareside Supercab 4x4 w/ORP and almost everything else! Killer Island Blue color
Craftec soft tonneau cover, billet antenna, Stull grille, Flowmaster 50 cat-back exhaust, a new 2000 5.4L no piston slap motor, and not much else YET!
Lot's of good ideas, though.

 

I live in Northern California and have taken my Expedition to my dealer regarding piston slap. He denies the problem. Can anyone recommend a dealer in the Norcal area that might be receptive to the problem.

 

What a great post! Excellent information. I've been thinking about trading my truck in for a Supercab V8 combination or getting an Expy and now I know to stay with the 2000's and newer.

I'm curious - Have the Navigator engines experienced PS?

BobsF150 - when the dealer reprogrammed your computer did he change the I.D. codes/sticker on the side of your computer? If they didn't and you installed a chip upgrade then I imagine you could run into all sorts of problems.

------------------
* 1998 White Reg Cab XL
* V6, Auto w/ 3.55 gears
* Lund Interceptor Bug Deflector
* Extang Saber Tonneau
* Airaid FIPK w/ K&N Filter
* Superchips computer chip
* Cracked windshield
* Unprotected badly scratched, slightly dented 8' bed.
* 22,500 miles and no door cracks, no peeling raingutter paint, and no coolant loss.
* I'm 6'8", 315lbs and I don't play basketball.

 

Just found out about the PS issues a couple of days ago. I distinctly heard what sounds like PS at start-up on my 97 F150 5.4L today. What's heartbreaking is that time on the warranty ran out last November and milage ran out in the last month (total miles 37500 as of today) and no extended warranty. By coincidence I had a service appointment with the dealer today so I asked the service rep about the PS problem. He told me he didn't know of any "piston slap" issues but he had found a TSB on "engine knock". It was TSB 13332, same as FordGirl posted in this thread on 3/1/00. I told the service rep my concern that Ford has been replacing engines in trucks still under warranty but not out of warranty. He said that's true and that they had replaced engines on two trucks because of PS (he did not specify whether they were in or out of warranty). He said I'd probably be ok if my miles weren't out of warranty but as it is I'm most likely out of luck but he suggested I arrange a date to leave it overnight so they could verify if it is PS. If so he would notify the local Ford rep about it. Now here's the flip side and my only ounce of hope I can muster. Last oil change was at 35K (by the dealer). They used a Ford oil filter. I checked the oil about an hour after I got home today and it showed 1/2 a quart low. It may be more since the engine was still relatively warm. I added a little over half a quart of oil. Tomorrow morning I will see if I hear the PS at start up. Until then I'll be crossing my fingers. At any rate I have scheduled to leave my truck overnight at the dealer on Thursday. We shall see how this plays out.

/mike
Newberg, OR
97 F150 5.4L Lariat SC

[This message has been edited by mbarkley (edited 06-13-2000).]

 

Heard what sounded like PS again this morning at start-up. Only lasted about 3 seconds though.

 

Listened again.

Again I hear excessive valve lash -- but cannot identify any 'Piston Slap' amongst it.

 

Y2K,
Prbably I am asking the wrong person, as I said in earlier post it's being long time I didnt drive a V8 so sounds are not familiar, is this valve lash normal?? at least valve lash sounds better that piston slap.

------------------
2000 F-150, S/C F/S 5.4lt Auto, 3.55 LS, M4x4, Capt. Chairs 6 way elec., 6 CD,Class III towing hitch and package, etc,etc,.
Med Toreador Red
Born 03-27-00
Mods,
Superchip UAT2,Borla Anniversary Edition Split rear catback,K&NGen II or FIPK, BBK Trottle Body,Granattely Mass Air Flow,SVT Lightning 18" wheels,285/60/18 Pirelli Scorpion Zero,HellwigSway bar,Dark Walnut dash kit,Muth signal mirrors,White face gauge,Bosch Plat. 4's,Retrax Rolltop,Outland sport bumper guard,Rancho rsx shocks,Ford OEM bug deflector,Underhood sound insulation panel,Piaa Plat. super white Bulbs,Catch All floor mats,Lund Back Draft tailgate spoiler

 

Well, I am giving up. Have spent two months with my dealer trying to convince the aftermarket warranty folks to give me an FQR, but short of hiring a lawyer I have nothing left to do. So now that I am out of warranty, I think I'll chance it with some long distance towing this summer, and then look for a '99 or '2K replacement this fall with about 30k on the odometer. No problems noted with the motor, but it just taunts me at every cold start, and it bugs me.

------------------
97 F250LD SC 5.4 4x4 White, Astro cap, nerf bars
piston slap, driver door crack, no gutter cracks, anything else?

 

Fact or fiction ?:

While I waited to take delivery of my truck on the 31st, I spoke to an engine mechanic about the piston slap problem in the 5.4L (at Riverside in Macon). He said he was very familiar with the problem..so I asked him to explain it to me. FORD has identified the cause as this: "When the pistons are cold, they are not perfectly round. They are designed this way (I did not ask why). When they heat up..they become perfectly round...as designed. It took FORD a couple of years to identify the cause and design the correct size pistons for when they were cold so they would not make the noise. FORD had no idea at first what was causing this sound (poor part quality, poor design..etc) and they started getting complaints left and right. I was told that NO ENGINES HAVE EVER FAILED DUE TO PISTON SLAP. 5.4L engines built after March/April 99 "should" have the correct pistons in them..but some of the faulty pistons might have been installed in later engines. He said they have replaced a BUNCH of 97, 98, and some early 99 engines a while back...virtually none recently...and no late 99s or any 2000s."

The 'problem' or better yet noise is very real..."and well known by ALL dealerships. If a dealership claims they know nothing about this..they are not being truthful." Again, FORD is reporting that no engines have failed because of piston slap.




------------------
2000 F-150 XLT, 4x2, 5.4L Supercab, LEV, Superchip, Styleside, Black with silver two-tone, 3.55 rear, class III towing package with heavy duty cooling package, Heavy duty shocks, 4 wheel disk ABS, overhead console, sliding rear window, keyless entry, dark graphite interior, in dash CD, factory leather wrapped steering wheel, FORD bedliner, K&N air filter, rubberized undercoating (soon), cabin filtration system - not yet installed, Bugflector II, Build date 7/00

 

Informative post!

If just playing the numbers:

860,000 5.4 engines made last year

if only 1% have this 'feature', then

8,600 are around

two years of them are 17,200 out there.

Some 4,000 owners are registered to this board.

Assume 25% are 5.4L

Some 40 5.4L 'feature-laden' engines are in the hands of members of this board alone.

There are not 40 different usernames showing up in the message boards for this 'feature' -- even though the members of this board are probably amongst the most vigilent and aware and mechanically-astute of the owners of these trucks.

There are conspicuously no postings from any representative or employee of piston manufacturers. Surely there is more than one piston design engineer out there (that doesn't have a gun to his head to keep silent). Just think of all of the engines that are built every day in home garages everywhere -- with nowhere near the savvy of the almighty Ford Motor Company. Where are their observations?

Somebody sold this piston design to ford (nobody in at the Big Four designs anything themself anymore -- it's all vendor-designed so that the big companies can hold the gun to the head of the poor vendor when SNAFU's like this happen.

Where's the Morton Thiocol sacrificial lamb?

I love conspiracies -- and this must be a HUGE one.

More, please...

------------------
Y2K™ Jim Gorka

Toreador Red, Keyless XLT SC SB 5.4L E4x4 4wDisc/ABS, 3.73LS, Skid, HD 7700# Towing, LT-245's on Chrome, Tube-Steps, Captain's, 6CD, Tonneau, named: "Nick"

 

Wish I'd visited this site back in 1999. I definitely have PS engine (barking 1998 5.4), but as some others have reported, dealer focused on Mass Air and computer; then blamed my K&N filter. The knocking really worried me but at the time I had no idea anyone else had it. Just went over warranty in Oct 99, but since then have been all over the planet and run up to 62k miles; I'm sure I'll not see any remedy.
BUT, THIS TRUCK HAS ONLY COST ME $37.03 SINCE WARRANTY CEASED. After 5 new vehicles and 9 used, none have been soo reliable.
But, now I can only hope for no catastrophic failures....... I've used Mobile1 filters since day 1 and synthetic oil, but the gas engine has sounded like big rig deisel since day 1.
Fingers crossed and petal to the metal.......

1998 F150 Lariat SC Loaded 4x4 - Red, 5.4L,Duals-cc kit, K&N filter, full length running boards with mud screens, "NO DARBY" tags (anti-treehugger), scracthed bed, 4wheeler dents from jumping out tail gate, tires still good but one finally bit a screw so want new 33"ers.....but worried about large tires with no lift, no suspension increase or brake improvments.

Despite Piston Slap - F150's rule......