There have been so many inquiries as to where I get my brakes from....here they are:

Semi-Metallic Linings (used on jelopy type short track race cars)
Shoe & Pad applications
Costs: About $50/set; very low dust
L&M Friction Materials, Riverside Ca
909-684-5713
No e-mail address

Street-Fighter Composite Linings (made by Wellman
(Great replacements for the Shelby Velva-Touch Linings)
Shoe & Pad applications
Costs: About $100/set; less dust than OEM. Must use anti-brake shim squeel glue on disc applications.
CarboTech Engineering
877-899-5024
E-Mail: ddncarbo@safari.net

FYI, My 65 Shelby has been in family since new and after 275,000 miles (ground up rebuild about 10,000 miles ago), it has only had 3 sets of brake linings put on it including the origional Velva-Touch.

My recommendations of linings to avoid:

Raybestos; Lining good but quality varies, machine work problem related. Sometimes noisey when used in heavy city traffic. Mfg poor to respond to problems on numerous occaisions.

NAPA Ceramics; Basically a good lining but does not produce any more real braking capacity (increased friction co-efficient) or higher operational temperature capacity than the "High Grade" OEM linings.

Bendix: Basically a good lining, a little better friction co-efficient, a little harder on rotors/drums. Top linings limited in availability. For cost versus gain, recommend Street-Fighter.

Delco; Same as Bendix

Porterfield; Good brakes; very dirty- High dust

Hawk Performance; Wellman race linings. Excellent stopping but very high dust producing (after all, in racing who cares!)

------------------
Member: Never trust a person over 40 who drives a Chevy club
Flatheads ain't so bad!
Certified backyard mechanic I & II



[This message has been edited by beechkid (edited 02-10-2001).]

 

Jeez Kid!
You basically said to "avoid" anything EXCEPT the
one brand you use...

Are we a bit, tiny bit, teensy weensy bit
prejudiced? Every 'other' brake maker is to
be avoided? (well, some certainly... but even
the Bendix brakes?_)...

These are the only ones you will use, period!

 

Hey Kid,
The site, http://www.carbotecheng.com/appguide-pads.htm

doesn't even list the F series as available...

I'll call them and talk...

 

My post was not intended to be viewed as "the only brakes one should buy". The intent was to identify the manufacturers whose linings have performed well for me, especially in stopping power and dust production as compared to OEM linings. Based upon the braking coefficient, as stated by the manufacturer, and that of my experience, linings such as Napa's ceramics, if someone was to purchase these believing that they will significantly stop the vehicle better, that would be a clear misrepresentation of the stated product performance capabilities not only of my own experience, but the mfg's specs as well. Many do not mind brake dust, and if you don't, there are many higher performance linings available by these same mfg's.

I have also run Formula FX Brand (from Europe) which is presently on the front of my F150 (50,000 miles on them, 1/3 worn).

With regards to raybesto's in particular, I have purchased in the past components which were not machined anywhere near OEM or Raybestos's specs. To this day, on my last and final purchase of their parts, I have yet to have the parts replaced, or even a return phone call from the mfg except to say on 3 separate occaisions, "The manager in charge of production will call you", that was 3 years ago.

With regards to the part #'s, CarboTech's work is done applying the linings to pads/shoes. While sometimes you can get lucky, the lining mfg will provide the linings already applied to the pad/shoe. There are few (if any) applications they (like any other brake or clutch builder) can't provide fo.

 

Have a drogue chute from an F-104... think I'll
use that...

Seriously, believe I've narrowed it (after talking
to the Florida folks) to either a Titanium from
Bendix or JC Whitney...

Have to talk to my shop.. thanks.

 

Was doing some further review and came upon these and
"think" that (as you mentioned and Carbotech mentioned) Hawk
that this may be similar in makeup and easily obtainable...

What say you?

(sorry for the long URL... tinyurl is defunct now).

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/hawk/...eet+brake+pads

 

Yes, Hawk is a supplier of Wellman linings. These are very, very good and used in all forms of racing including Formula 1, Indy & NASCAR. They are like Porterfield a dirty lining meaning they produce a lot of dust and the linings Hawk carries I believe are made for racing purposes only, compared to the linings Carbo has which can be used for racing but they also make those that are very compatible for street use.

The problem with real racining lining is that they don't stop at all when they are "cold" and even just driving on the freeway without touching the brakes for 20-30 minutes can cool the linings off to where if you hit the brakes, you would feel like there isn't anything there for the first couple of seconds, till they heated up. But call Hawk and see if they have any grades of linings for your purpose, chances are they will refer you to Carbo. But let mw know what you find out!

 

Hiya Kid,
Looks like they have three different available
pads at that site...
I'm still researching which ones would be best
for my F-150 and normal to moderately aggressive
driving.
They indicate increased stopping power and less
dust... but I do recall you mentioned
both Hawk and Carbotech in one of your posts so
I was pleased to see Hawk with good prices...

$59, $69 and $79 for the various versions...

That site seems up n up... ? Take a look..

more later.

 

Right now I am running the Bendix Titanium series pads. They do produce a little less dust compared to the OE or Motorcraft pads the stopping power is not that increased hardly at all. I wasn't looking to increase stopping power when I bought these, just lower dust and a good quality pad. With that said I'm satisfied with their performance in that regards and paid less than $45 for them.
I'm not for sure on their wear but will be checking probably tomorrow and they should be in good shape as I only have about 20000 on them.
I will agree Bendix may chew up the rotors a little faster but I'm also running the Bendix rotors. So as a complete setup I should expect several thousand miles out of everything. Also, it's got to be better than running Raybestos (cermaics excluded) and some of the other low quality, poor brands.

For a cheap pad that will stop like OE and produces some dust, the Wearever Silver or Golds by Ferdoo are OK.

This is off the wall but I have been told Bendix invented hydraulic brakes or was the first to produce them or something to that effect.

 

...when I was young the Bendix was the 'only'
thing around. I recall the old parts stores in
MA. only carried Bendix. Of course this was not
long after the idea you could have any car color
you wanted, but only if it was black.

I am leaning towards these Hawks but need to talk
to my brake shop (Western Tire and Auto, Burbank,
CA. - great folks, good prices!).

I don't mind paying a bit extra... but want good
brakes.

Danka!!!!

 

I wish to thank the "Older Crowd" for jumping in with their comments (I'm getting up in the age bracket myself) and many of the younger members who have never experienced the higher performance brake linings really can't or have difficulty understand my description references of the products. I remember a neighbor down the street who is younger, a car nut, and was showing me an article about how drum brakes just won't stop a car. Now i grant you that disc is better, but to say drum brakes won't stop a car is very, very inaccurate.

Since he didn't believe me, we took my 65 mustang out for a spin (4 wheel drums, velva Touch on the rear, Carbo Street Fighter lining on fronts), brought it up to 80 mph, insisted he brace himself, and planted my foot on the brakes hard, releasing every 20 mph decelloration. He was very, very much not ready (he drives a newer Camero, 4 wheel disc). His nose was literally planted in my windshield!

The brakes never locked (except the last few feet), the car stopped in a very straight controlled line. Once we got back to my house, he jumped out, laid on the ground and swore that I had to have front disc and an antilock system in the car! Wrong! He just laid there staring for 20 minutes.....

then I took him for a ride in my wifes 97 Cougar Sport (V8, 4 wheel disc) with Carbo Tech linings. He swore I had brambo brakes on that one (not even close really), but it will out stop any OEM 4 wheel disc setup on a car of similiar size.

As I explained to him, it's not the size so much as the quality of parts.....Hmmmm, I seem to remember my Dad (the fonz) teeling me that same thing when I was 16 years old!

 

Let me clearify myself a little. I'm not in the older age bracket (only 21) but I know you get what you pay for and I know brakes are not a part you should skimp on.
I see people buying the cheapest set of pads they can because they're cheap or they are into the old way of thinking that the more expensive longer lasting pads will destroy rotors and such. These are the same peole that come back 6 months later to complain that their pads are worn out or it's squeeling, or pulling.
Bendix is not the best but you can do much worse.
I might try those Carbotechs the next time around, what rotor would you suggest to run with them? If pads are $100 how much are the rotors and would they stop OK on like a Bendix rotor?

I have one other question that I want someone's opinion on. I put on new Bendix pads and rotors less than 10K ago. I hade my wheel off yesterday and noticed that the stick-on shim on the outside had slid and bent up one edge. It was sprinkling when I put them on so this may have been a factor. I took it off straightened it out and glued it back down with black RTV as a temporary fix. I have a new set of pads and shims ready but not sure on what I should do. Should I just swap out all four pads and shims and not worry about the rotors as they are not hurt? Should I just swap out that one old bent shim with a new one? Should I leave it alone all togther and hope the temps do not break down the RTV? Should I go all out and replace pads and rotors again (a big hassle) with lees than 10K on them? I wanna do the right thing. I think swapping out the pads in the best choice as the new shim may not stick to the old pad, it's not safe to let it go, and it's nonsense to replace barley worn rotors.

 

The shims are peeling away because of the heat tranfer fom the pads. You can buy stainless steel shims (about $20) or do what I did and went to a sheet metal shop, picked up a piece of scrap sheet metal for $5, cut em out and installed em. No more problems.

With the higher friction linings, there is a slight chance you might get very slight warpage but, if you are going to replace, Carbo sells OEM replacement rotors and for $15 (IIRR) each they will dip em in nitrogen which increases their hardness enough to eliminate the potential of this problem.

BTW FordFreak, never meant to insult, you are wiser beyond your years "G"! Must have had a goood papa!

 

beechkid
Not a problem, I was insulted, it takes more than that. I apprecaite the comment and my dad taught me well.
I thought about the heat causng the shims to peel away but it slipped my mind when I was typing the last post. Bendix uses a sticky doublesided tape on their shims, which doesn't make much sense now that I think about it. They know the tape will not hold up to the pressure, dust and heat so why use it, they should have it rivited on or something. How are your homemade shims attached?
The old bentup shim was not causing any problems but I do not like for anything to be bent up or out of place, especially on my brakes. Like I said the rotors and pads are both pratically new (less than 10K). I just can't decide if I should put fresh pads with new shims on there or just put new shims on old pads and risk them not sticking.
You are right about the titanium creating a little pulsation, every now and then from a high speed stop ( like exit ramps) you can feel a little pulsation. Then again there's other factors in this too, like TC shudder, and rear drum brakes. Plus IMO, ABS systems have funny feel (slight pulse) to them anyways even in normal braking situations.

 

The shims are doing fine. I used stainless steel, double the gauge of the OEM and used anti-disc brake squeel glue to attach.......no problems. And you're right, most of the mfg's are using tape to attach these guys now a days. In theory I sure the concept works, but..........I'm a lttle old fashion, until they get an adhesive that really works and shims that can resist the heat, I'll keep making my own & gluing them.